Should The Nhs Fund This?

[youngmafbog]

Regardless of whther you belive this sort of thing should be happening should it really be up to the NHS to fund it?

Personally I think not. The NHS is struggling with life and death cases so lifestyle choices should not be paid for. And that appies to boob jobs and other nosense paid by the tax payer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4959094/Parents-want-NHS-son-12-puberty-halting-drugs.html

[Old_Geezer]

No argument over mental health budget & priority.

Fertility services have no connection with flawed self images. Infertile couples know they are infertile. But there is an argument for it being taken out of the NHS and, if desired, funded as a separate issue.

[naomi24]

Jim, //I don't think that it therefore matters if the child in question will change their mind at a later date or not. //

With the NHS under pressure, treating something that may well turn out to have been utterly unnecessary is a complete waste of time and resources and hence, it matters a lot. No one should be treated on what may well be a whim.

[jim360]

Citation for that study, Sqad?

Although I have heard of that particular point being made from time to time, most such studies are either conducted by vested interests who were always looking to "show" that SRS isn't worth it, or by people who were mainly pointing out that the aftercare was neglected.

Clearly SRS, or any other transformative surgery, isn't going to be enough of itself to "cure" a condition that is embedded mainly in the mind and the perception of self, but I am not sure that anyone proposes otherwise.

[NoMercy]

Jim, do you think this child's parents should be indulging what could well be a transient whim and mucking up nature and their child's biology in the process?

Yes, they should be locked up. At the very least he should be taken into care.

[woofgang]

sqad...this isn't a gender reversing procedure....in fact its a treatment intended to ensure that gender change procedures are only done where the person is as sure as they can be that the procedure will enhance their lives and to minimise reversals.

Mushroom.... "responsible for their injuries" is clear enough I would have thought?

[Sqad]

Jim

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

LOL...I hate people asking for confirmation as it is almost like them saying..."I don't believe you."

[woofgang]

Nom, The intent of this treatment is NOT to muck up their child's biology but the give the child a chance to think about what is a big step and to minimise wrong decisions....and as for mucking up nature, should conjoined twins not be separated? after all that's nature.

I know...I know....you are entitled to your opinion.......

[jim360]

What counts as a "whim"? Something that, in this case, appears to have been a part of the child's life since the age of four is hard to call a "whim". And at what point does it stop being a whim and start being serious? The reasoning for this treatment is that clearly it's physically beneficial for self-image to try and ensure that the person doesn't develop too far away from how they perceive themselves, and as it's not irreversible it's barely mucking up with anything.

This works for both Naomi and NoM's post and counts as a reply to both. Also... wow, NoM. Wow.

But the fact is that you are arguing for not funding a treatment not because it isn't necessary but because you don't even agree with the principle that it's treating. You cannot separate the two.

[jim360]

// LOL...I hate people asking for confirmation as it is almost like them saying..."I don't believe you." //

Well, quite. In this case I did believe you because I knew that there were such studies out there, but as I said I was curious which one you had in mind.

And, lo and behold, as I said this was one of those that concludes:

"Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."

As in... more aftercare is needed. Which stands to reason, really.

[woofgang]

"Fertility services have no connection with flawed self images."

Actually yes they do. Infertile people see themselves as parents and cannot cope with the reality that its not going to happen.

[Sqad]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816764

There you go Jim......a link that supports you ;-)

Woofgang...yes....but once started, I would be interested to know the number that backed out !

[tamborine]

If it can be done in Harley Street, NHS should not encroach that livlihood.

[naomi24]

Jim, //But the fact is that you are arguing for not funding a treatment not because it isn't necessary but because you don't even agree with the principle that it's treating. //

I didn't say that but I don't agree with this treatment being given to children which is what you're arguing for. I think that is totally irresponsible.

[jim360]

We've had these conversations often enough at this point for me to feel safe in what I said about your views on this.

[Sqad]

Jim

"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population."

That was the comment from the study that i was referring to, but as you say, it may be due to poor post treatment mental care. OR...it may not.

[woofgang]

well that rules out LOADS of NHS treatments including some for cancer, most fertility treatments, Caesarean section births......

[woofgang]

naomi, the whole point of this particular treatment is that it is affected children approaching puberty who are likely to benefit from it....once puberty is passed there is no point....do you not understand what the treatment is for?

[NoMercy]

Thanks Jim. I always aim to wow with my posts...

Halting puberty amounts to messing with nature in my opinion and requires nature to be suppressed.

If he wants to go the whole hog when hes older and mutilate what nature gave him in order to fashion something nature didn't give him, that's up to him. Until such time his still-developing body should not be pumped full of synthetic chemicals, the acute and long-term side effects of which are probably not yet fully known, in order to cheat nature.

[webbo3]

hc4361\\You don't want the NHS to pay for lifestyle choices - does that include all stages of pregnancy and birth?
How about treating sexually transmitted diseases?
Alcoholism?
Obesity? //

Alcoholism......Possibly life saving.
Obesity....... Possibly life saving.
STDs....Cheap compared to gender reassignment.
gender reassignment, not essential, pay for it yourself.

[Samuraisan]

I think it is totally irresponsible to consider pumping a 12 year old with these drugs. Let him dress up as a girl while he wants to. I would discourage him if he was mine, he is going to get bullied for sure.