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Is Labour Clearing Out The Psuedo Tories?
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They claim not!
They claim not!
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I did read Owen Jones' rather odious and lickspittle article in defence of this, which struck me as a desperate piece of spin.
I have never voted Labour, but if there is a GE soon and I choose to vote, then they will probably get my support. Unfortunately, the ballot box makes no distinction between fanatical and reluctant supporters, and as we live in a broken two-party system, I have effectively no other choice. Certainly this kind of vile behaviour does nothing to endear me to them.
I know several people who are in Momentum and while not all of them are fanatics, one thing that is true for all of them is that they absolutely love all this partisan infighting, regardless of what they say about it. All the meetings and votes and purges and counter-purges and "emergency motions" and party procedures really do pop their cork. Maybe it makes them feel important or something. I do not relish the prospect of them having serious influence.
I have never voted Labour, but if there is a GE soon and I choose to vote, then they will probably get my support. Unfortunately, the ballot box makes no distinction between fanatical and reluctant supporters, and as we live in a broken two-party system, I have effectively no other choice. Certainly this kind of vile behaviour does nothing to endear me to them.
I know several people who are in Momentum and while not all of them are fanatics, one thing that is true for all of them is that they absolutely love all this partisan infighting, regardless of what they say about it. All the meetings and votes and purges and counter-purges and "emergency motions" and party procedures really do pop their cork. Maybe it makes them feel important or something. I do not relish the prospect of them having serious influence.
Because I can't vote for the government, Naomi, for all kinds of reasons. Their policies are causing very serious and unnecessary hardship to the disabled - including people close to me. I also think May has an extremely dangerous attitude towards policing the internet (which is already yielding terrible results) and that her government is propped up by interests which guarantee profound societal problems that the Conservative party is actively prevented from addressing in a way that Labour isn't.
And because of our broken system, if you can't vote for the government - you either don't vote, or you vote for the other lot.
So, yes, unfortunately Labour are the lesser of two evils from my point of view. Even if they were not, though, voting against them would still be utterly pointless for me because I live in a safe Labour seat - so any vote that isn't Labour would be actively wasted, and if I voted for an alternative that I liked better (say Lib Dem), I would actually decrease the chances of policies I like happening rather than increase them. Look up the "spoiler effect" for a more detailed explanation of what I mean.
So, much as I dislike the current leadership of Labour, my only other choice to voting for them is not to vote. :/
And because of our broken system, if you can't vote for the government - you either don't vote, or you vote for the other lot.
So, yes, unfortunately Labour are the lesser of two evils from my point of view. Even if they were not, though, voting against them would still be utterly pointless for me because I live in a safe Labour seat - so any vote that isn't Labour would be actively wasted, and if I voted for an alternative that I liked better (say Lib Dem), I would actually decrease the chances of policies I like happening rather than increase them. Look up the "spoiler effect" for a more detailed explanation of what I mean.
So, much as I dislike the current leadership of Labour, my only other choice to voting for them is not to vote. :/
Plaid Cymru in Wales Mikey. That is a third option. The Welsh nationalist party you know. In fact the only Country in the UK not to have a Nationalist party is ................England. That is deemed to be a racist stance and not to be countenanced, whereas every where else a Nationalist party is deemed to be patriotic and culturally desired. Go Figure.
Naomi....I know you used to be a Labour voter, but you aren't now, and I appreciate that you are unlikely to vote Labour again in the future.
But Mrs May and her Government are getting more and more unpopular as the days wear on. When Labour wins a future Election, part of the reason for that will be that the Tories are seen as no longer viable, as happened in 1997, with Major.
People win elections because the other Party can't.
But Mrs May and her Government are getting more and more unpopular as the days wear on. When Labour wins a future Election, part of the reason for that will be that the Tories are seen as no longer viable, as happened in 1997, with Major.
People win elections because the other Party can't.
Well, I seem to recall you said the same thing about Ed Miliband so an old story about crying wolf comes to mind...
Even so, we should all just vote for the government then? Give May a super-majority and guarantee that we'll still be governed like this for another 20 years?
No, I'm sorry, that's not something I can vote for. If we had a better system, I'd vote for someone else. But we don't.
Even so, we should all just vote for the government then? Give May a super-majority and guarantee that we'll still be governed like this for another 20 years?
No, I'm sorry, that's not something I can vote for. If we had a better system, I'd vote for someone else. But we don't.
The Lenin and Marx worshippers were sent packing once before in living memory and it can happen again.
Not if Labour are happy to sell leader votes to Tories for a couple of quid to ensure an upset, but if everybody moves closer to the real world things may get better.
Extremes are no good for anybody.
Not if Labour are happy to sell leader votes to Tories for a couple of quid to ensure an upset, but if everybody moves closer to the real world things may get better.
Extremes are no good for anybody.
Mikey, //People win elections because the other Party can't. //
I know. That's why Labour lost the last election.
Yes, I was a Labour voter but a vote for Labour now is not a vote for 'Labour'. You Labour voters have a vision of a party that no longer exists and hasn't existed for a long time. You don't seem to understand what you're really voting for. As long as the label says 'Labour' you'll go for it regardless of what's actually in the box.
I know. That's why Labour lost the last election.
Yes, I was a Labour voter but a vote for Labour now is not a vote for 'Labour'. You Labour voters have a vision of a party that no longer exists and hasn't existed for a long time. You don't seem to understand what you're really voting for. As long as the label says 'Labour' you'll go for it regardless of what's actually in the box.
If the process is being done democratically, then no....I don't have a problem.
I don't share your fear or disdain of the far left, nor did the 12,878,460 people who voted Labour a few months ago. In 2015, only 9,347,273 voted Labour, and in 2010 it was even lower, 8,609,527
So, Labour membership and voting success has gone up under Corbyn.
I don't share your fear or disdain of the far left, nor did the 12,878,460 people who voted Labour a few months ago. In 2015, only 9,347,273 voted Labour, and in 2010 it was even lower, 8,609,527
So, Labour membership and voting success has gone up under Corbyn.
At least the people of Wales and Scotland have the choice Mikey. Whether they make that choice is up to them. A definite third option. The people of England have no such opportunity. Anyone trying to get an English National party off the ground is immediately howled down and branded fascist little Englanders, not least by the Marxists.
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