Body & Soul14 mins ago
Arising From Another Brexit Discussion Above......for The Remainers....
77 Answers
A typically excellent post in the discussion above from the judge stated this:
".... I’m more concerned with it (UK) being able to determine its own future without being dictated to by unelected foreign civil servants. No Remainer has ever explained to me why they are quite prepared to put up with this which would not be tolerated by any other democratic country in the world outside the EU." - I thought this worthy of it's own post, over to you remainers.....Why are you happy to be controlled by unelected foreign civil servants?
".... I’m more concerned with it (UK) being able to determine its own future without being dictated to by unelected foreign civil servants. No Remainer has ever explained to me why they are quite prepared to put up with this which would not be tolerated by any other democratic country in the world outside the EU." - I thought this worthy of it's own post, over to you remainers.....Why are you happy to be controlled by unelected foreign civil servants?
Answers
// No Remainer has ever explained to me why they are quite prepared to put up with this which would not be tolerated by any other democratic country in the world outside the EU.// Allow me TTT, and of course, "The Judge". I think it is safe to say that every dyed in the wool remoaner is not actually British by recent heritage, but in that little secret part of their...
20:45 Wed 27th Dec 2017
Let us not also forget that the EEC Act scraped through the Commons by only 8 votes. (Heath had a working majority of 30). This was only achieved with the help of the Liberals (how predictable) and Heath's bullying tactics, threatening to call an election if the Bill were not passed. As Heath's government was rapidly losing popularity this understandably made those Tory MPs in marginal seats rather nervous.
From what I read here from our resident Remainers is basicly ... Don't rock the boat, keep the status quo, I'm all right so it must be working.. is that it?
Sovereignty doesn't matter because maybe they can't see what we are loosing or that we are loosing ours. Perhaps because the fear of the unknown is a powerful factor?
Fear of the unknown and a need for the status quo is no reason for everyone who does know what is happening to allow you to sleepwalk into capitulation.
I'm all right economically so sovereignty doesn't matter. I want to roam and work wherever I want (within the EU) so sovereignty doesn't matter.
Us 'old timers' can remember a time when we did things for ourselves. When we make mistakes they are our own. No foisted on us.
There may be a time in the future when we don't want to govern ourselves. When we are happy to be part of a superstate but just now, this time is not the right time.
Give it 30 years or so (maybe less who knows) and we will all be dead. You will have had time to see the difference of being in and out and be able to make a judgement on being in or out.
Fear, a need for the status quo and I'm all right Jack is such a sad reason to be a Remainer.
But of course that is just my opinion and the discussion will continue for some time yet.
Sovereignty doesn't matter because maybe they can't see what we are loosing or that we are loosing ours. Perhaps because the fear of the unknown is a powerful factor?
Fear of the unknown and a need for the status quo is no reason for everyone who does know what is happening to allow you to sleepwalk into capitulation.
I'm all right economically so sovereignty doesn't matter. I want to roam and work wherever I want (within the EU) so sovereignty doesn't matter.
Us 'old timers' can remember a time when we did things for ourselves. When we make mistakes they are our own. No foisted on us.
There may be a time in the future when we don't want to govern ourselves. When we are happy to be part of a superstate but just now, this time is not the right time.
Give it 30 years or so (maybe less who knows) and we will all be dead. You will have had time to see the difference of being in and out and be able to make a judgement on being in or out.
Fear, a need for the status quo and I'm all right Jack is such a sad reason to be a Remainer.
But of course that is just my opinion and the discussion will continue for some time yet.
Tora, perhaps I should have inserted the word ‘intelligent’ between ‘any’ and ‘comment’.
I don’t know why you start debates which you make to valuable contribution to. Then again, I don’t know why you start debates with a question which was answered in a previous one.
At least we didn’t have any cock er nee rhyming slang.
I don’t know why you start debates which you make to valuable contribution to. Then again, I don’t know why you start debates with a question which was answered in a previous one.
At least we didn’t have any cock er nee rhyming slang.
cassa333
Some interesting reading on the question of sovereignty here:
https:/
Some interesting reading on the question of sovereignty here:
https:/
//a brexit thread !
another one ! //
Well ignore it then if it bothers you that much. It is not mandatory to post on every question.
TTT, not being a remainer I obviously cannot post much, however I came on to see what people have said. It does seem to me that the remain is really based on the status quo (and the "I m alright Jack" attitude), the problem there being there does not seem to be any account of where the EU is going. Strange.
another one ! //
Well ignore it then if it bothers you that much. It is not mandatory to post on every question.
TTT, not being a remainer I obviously cannot post much, however I came on to see what people have said. It does seem to me that the remain is really based on the status quo (and the "I m alright Jack" attitude), the problem there being there does not seem to be any account of where the EU is going. Strange.
// No Remainer has ever explained to me why they are quite prepared to put up with this which would not be tolerated by any other democratic country in the world outside the EU.//
Allow me TTT, and of course, "The Judge". I think it is safe to say that every dyed in the wool remoaner is not actually British by recent heritage, but in that little secret part of their heart carries the "Anti GB" lode that they mine subconsciously whenever the meaning of being truly British arises. They don't have it you see, the hundreds of years ancestry born and bred here, instead they have a "voice" because the British way allowed their forbears one. But now of course that very voice is used to deny we British, by heritage, ours.
Allow me TTT, and of course, "The Judge". I think it is safe to say that every dyed in the wool remoaner is not actually British by recent heritage, but in that little secret part of their heart carries the "Anti GB" lode that they mine subconsciously whenever the meaning of being truly British arises. They don't have it you see, the hundreds of years ancestry born and bred here, instead they have a "voice" because the British way allowed their forbears one. But now of course that very voice is used to deny we British, by heritage, ours.
One doesn't pool sovereignty, one either has it in full, or one loses some of it.
Common objectives can be achieved by agreement not obedience.
Immigration/borders are vital, excepting them opts to lose the argument from the off. But the fact is that laws are subject to being overwritten by EU decision anyway and that is unacceptable.
The state of the present economy is incomparable with where we would be had we not joined the EU since we can't see both at the same time, so the insistence we are better off and all our problems are of our own making is disingenuous; remainer propaganda.
Immigration is rarely positive. Specific individuals excepted, most incomers either fill positions unemployed natives could take, so talk of tax paying is irrelevant; or are unemployed so a drain or resources. In addition the resulting unemployed natives as a result constitute a further drain. Calculations showing otherwise are likely to neglect the fact that nothing additional has been gained in order to skew the overall picture.
Risks are there to be taken. Some clown risked putting us in the EEC. That proved a disaster to our sovereignty as it morphed into the EU. Now we risk putting that right. At least that will correct a past error.
If the EU has problems with the UK leaving they are of their own making. There is zero reason intelligent negotiators can not agree perfectly good trade deals if the will is there. It's "Project Fear" insisting otherwise.
Being in the EU didn't help design anything that couldn't have been agreed outside it, if the political will exists. On the EU side it doesn't because it has an extended agenda to take over. Others won't be looking to do that.
Sovereignty is never illusory. The claim is is suggests that the Royal Institute of International Affairs is chock full of remainers trying to dissuade the people of allowing their elected government taking back control. Leaving one to wonder what's in it for them.
Common objectives can be achieved by agreement not obedience.
Immigration/borders are vital, excepting them opts to lose the argument from the off. But the fact is that laws are subject to being overwritten by EU decision anyway and that is unacceptable.
The state of the present economy is incomparable with where we would be had we not joined the EU since we can't see both at the same time, so the insistence we are better off and all our problems are of our own making is disingenuous; remainer propaganda.
Immigration is rarely positive. Specific individuals excepted, most incomers either fill positions unemployed natives could take, so talk of tax paying is irrelevant; or are unemployed so a drain or resources. In addition the resulting unemployed natives as a result constitute a further drain. Calculations showing otherwise are likely to neglect the fact that nothing additional has been gained in order to skew the overall picture.
Risks are there to be taken. Some clown risked putting us in the EEC. That proved a disaster to our sovereignty as it morphed into the EU. Now we risk putting that right. At least that will correct a past error.
If the EU has problems with the UK leaving they are of their own making. There is zero reason intelligent negotiators can not agree perfectly good trade deals if the will is there. It's "Project Fear" insisting otherwise.
Being in the EU didn't help design anything that couldn't have been agreed outside it, if the political will exists. On the EU side it doesn't because it has an extended agenda to take over. Others won't be looking to do that.
Sovereignty is never illusory. The claim is is suggests that the Royal Institute of International Affairs is chock full of remainers trying to dissuade the people of allowing their elected government taking back control. Leaving one to wonder what's in it for them.
I wasn’t going to contribute to this rather dispiriting exchange (yet another loaded question). The stuff about no democratic countries (outside the EU, naturally: by that casual ‘get out’ New Judge airily dismisses nearly 30 of the West’s strongest democracies, but never mind eh) standing for being dictated to blah blah blah)
It is amusing to note that the OP invited comments from Remainers but has chosen to award a ‘best answer’ to someone on the other side of the argument. An answer moreover which is outrageous in its arrogant assumptions: crude identity politics at its worst and I wonder if Togo who is obviously intelligent, actually believes the nonsense he has written.
It is amusing to note that the OP invited comments from Remainers but has chosen to award a ‘best answer’ to someone on the other side of the argument. An answer moreover which is outrageous in its arrogant assumptions: crude identity politics at its worst and I wonder if Togo who is obviously intelligent, actually believes the nonsense he has written.
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