Boris Brexit Champion

[Gromit]

// The prime minister is said to be considering offering the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson a move to a Brexit delivery role in a reshuffle designed to revitalise the Conservative front bench //

Meanwhile...

// David Davis's allies fear that he risks being "marginalised" if Boris Johnson is handed a new "super-charged" Brexit role in a forthcoming Cabinet reshuffle. //

Everyone can welcome this news.

[mikey4444]

YMB....This is genuinely what most people have said to me, and I have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances, as well as hundreds of people that I meet in the course of my work. Not all, but most.

[New Judge]

“…so what is wrong with the HOP having the final say on the terms of our leaving ?”

Nothing whatsoever. So long as if they reject the deal negotiated we leave with no deal at all. There should be no opportunity for Parliament to continually prevaricate and delay our departure. The decision to leave has been taken (by the electorate and reinforced by Parliament by about five to one). The terms of that departure are trifling details and they should not involve any continuation of the EU’s influence over the UK’s affairs.

It was obvious to many people that the “negotiations” would be difficult and it will be impossible to reach a settlement that suits both the EU and the UK (simply because the EU does not have “negotiate” in its vocabulary). Anyway, far too much credence is given to the importance of trade deals in this matter. EU companies want to trade with the UK and UK companies want to trade with the EU member nations. That will happen despite all the huffing and puffing of self-important (but fairly meaningless) politicians. Always has, always will. Regaining the nation's sovereignty is far too important to allow such mundane matters to get in the way.

[Gromit]

// There is nothing successful in the first round for the UK whatsoever. //

We are paying considerably less than the €60 billion we were asked for. So we get a tick for that.

[youngmafbog]

Mickey, you must have seen on here most Brexit voters had many reasons for voting to leave. Yes one reason is unfettered uncontrolled immigration but not the only one by any means.

I suspect, like you do on here, you have selective hearing on the subject.

[mikey4444]

YMB...when I have asked people why they voted for BREXIT, the issue of foreigners and jobs is the reason most often given.

I have yet to hear many multi-paragraph reasons, that so many use on AB.

That is my experience, spread out over a wide range of different people, from different socio-economic groups.

[New Judge]

"...when I have asked people why they voted for BREXIT, the issue of foreigners and jobs is the reason most often given."

So you have said for a while now, Mikey.

It's certainly not so among people of my acquaintance, but assuming it is widespread, what's wrong with it? Many people feel that the issue of uncontrolled immigration is one very good reason to leave the EU. They are likely to be disappointed if they believe that our departure from the EU will see the end of immigration. In the same way they will also be disappointed if they think £350m a week will be spent on the NHS. But their reason should not be dismissed as worthless.

[mikey4444]

NJ...with the greatest of respect, and I mean that, as I normally value your approach to politics, while not necessarily agreeing with you , just how many ordinary people do you meet ?

How many d's and e's do you come into contact with on a daily basis ?

My best guess is not many ( nor should you, of course)

[Old_Geezer]

I don't believe a vote is necessarily required at all. It doesn't require abandoning the notion of parliamentary democracy just because not every little thing is debated; the decision to leave has already been made, Government just needs to get on with it, only calling for debate when there's something of value to debate.

[New Judge]

“Government just needs to get on with it, only calling for debate when there's something of value to debate.”

Exactly, OG. The referendum asked people whether they wanted the UK to remain in or leave the EU. The majority of those who bothered to vote decided to leave. Not slightly leave or slightly remain, not to leave this bit but stay in that bit. They voted to leave. That is all the government should concern itself with – total and complete withdrawal from the EU and to ensure that organisation has no influence on UK affairs. In short, overseeing the conversion of the UK back to a "normal" (i.e. non-EU) country which most of the rest of the world seems to be able to live with quite adequately.

All the “negotiations” (in inverted commas because they are nothing of the sort) are centred around how much continuing influence the EU can have over the UK’s affairs: how much money they can extract from us; how their judiciary can continue its jurisdiction over UK matters; how trade between the UK and the remains of the EU can be determined by unelected civil servants; how it can continue to ensure its “values” are upheld in the UK. The referendum question asked voters if they wanted to continue with that or not. They chose not to and that’s all the government should concentrate on.

“How many d's and e's do you come into contact with on a daily basis ?”

Sorry, Mikey, but I don’t really know what you mean by “d’s and e’s”. I’m not too well versed with Social Grades (or whatever they’re called). But my life is not so sheltered as you might imagine. I have friends and acquaintances from across the Social spectrum. One thing that does seem to be a predominant theme amongst them is that about 95% of them voted to Leave. If what we’re led to believe is true, they should fall predominantly in the lower earning, lower achieving, less well educated sections of the population but in general that is not the case. What they do seem to have in common is the ability to think for themselves, are not taken in by fatuous politicians and use their knowledge and experience of what they’ve endured to make their decisions rather than taking heed of promises and threats from “experts”.

[Zacs-Master]

Ever heard the phrase ‘educated idiots’ ? It would seem to be pertinent.

[douglas9401]

It's strange in these times we're living through that the government, stuck as they are for talent don't reach out to sites like Answerbank to try and get some of the more gung-ho big thinkers on board.
Y'know, get some of that armchair wisdom mixed into the negotiations driving us ever closer to a solution.

Or the edge of an abyss.