ChatterBank0 min ago
Why Should Trump Apologise For Speaking The Truth?
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andy-hughes
It is a fact and not an opinion, if it wasn't a fact why do so many of these inhabitants of these so called S""t holes want to leave them and come to live in the more comfortable living Western areas.
Incidentally since it is not your opinion that these African towns and cities are really not as described, would you yourself wish to live there?
It is a fact and not an opinion, if it wasn't a fact why do so many of these inhabitants of these so called S""t holes want to leave them and come to live in the more comfortable living Western areas.
Incidentally since it is not your opinion that these African towns and cities are really not as described, would you yourself wish to live there?
TTT - // AH: "Because it's not 'the truth'" - name one African nation that isn't a Tish orrifice? RSA is the best they have and look at the state of that! //
I can only repeat what I have said - fact and opinion are not the same thing.
You can say - and indeed you do - that these countries are horrible places, and they may well be, but the degree to which they are undesirable is variable, depending on who is offering the viewpoint, and that makes it an opinion.
This country is in Africa - fact.
This country is horrible - opinion.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
I can only repeat what I have said - fact and opinion are not the same thing.
You can say - and indeed you do - that these countries are horrible places, and they may well be, but the degree to which they are undesirable is variable, depending on who is offering the viewpoint, and that makes it an opinion.
This country is in Africa - fact.
This country is horrible - opinion.
Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
AOG - // It is a fact and not an opinion, if it wasn't a fact why do so many of these inhabitants of these so called S""t holes want to leave them and come to live in the more comfortable living Western areas. //
The reasons why people want to leave does not alter in the slightest the simple fact that describing a country as undesirable is an opinion, not a fact.
Please see my previous post, or refer to the dictionary definitions I posted to Naomi, who it appears is having similar difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and a fact.
// Incidentally since it is not your opinion that these African towns and cities are really not as described, would you yourself wish to live there? //
I have not said that it not my opinion that these African towns and cities are not really as described - I have offered no opinion either way, because I have never been to Africa, so my opinion would not be based on experience - probably like the President's.
The reasons why people want to leave does not alter in the slightest the simple fact that describing a country as undesirable is an opinion, not a fact.
Please see my previous post, or refer to the dictionary definitions I posted to Naomi, who it appears is having similar difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and a fact.
// Incidentally since it is not your opinion that these African towns and cities are really not as described, would you yourself wish to live there? //
I have not said that it not my opinion that these African towns and cities are not really as described - I have offered no opinion either way, because I have never been to Africa, so my opinion would not be based on experience - probably like the President's.
AOG - // If it is not true about these African countries, why do we see proof of the squalor that they live in, on every appeal for charity and aid that is shown constantly on our TVs? //
No-one is disputing that these countires endure squalid conditions, but that is not the same as describing them as 'shitholes' - surely you can grasp that one is a reasonable fact-based viewpoint, and the other is an unpleasant vulgar epithet which is the hallmark of an ignorant racist.
No-one is disputing that these countires endure squalid conditions, but that is not the same as describing them as 'shitholes' - surely you can grasp that one is a reasonable fact-based viewpoint, and the other is an unpleasant vulgar epithet which is the hallmark of an ignorant racist.
andy-hughes, //Please see my previous post, or refer to the dictionary definitions I posted to Naomi, who it appears is having similar difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and a fact.//
Naomi has no difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and fact, just as she has no difficulty in grasping the difference between factual experience and entirely uninformed assumption.
Naomi has no difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and fact, just as she has no difficulty in grasping the difference between factual experience and entirely uninformed assumption.
Naomi - // Naomi has no difficulty in grasping the difference between an opinion and fact, just as she has no difficulty in grasping the difference between factual experience and entirely uninformed assumption. //
You are side-tracking again.
The notion of factual experience, whether I or indeed the President have personal experience of African countries, is not the point I have raised.
It is clear that you do difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact, because you regard what President Trump said as being fact, when clearly it is opinion, and also, the concepts have become interchangeable by you from one post to another.
You are side-tracking again.
The notion of factual experience, whether I or indeed the President have personal experience of African countries, is not the point I have raised.
It is clear that you do difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact, because you regard what President Trump said as being fact, when clearly it is opinion, and also, the concepts have become interchangeable by you from one post to another.
//Trump has made a statement that certain countries are *** Holes.
That is not the truth...//
OK, Eddie, I think you have some respect for the truth, so some questions (they're not hard): El Salvador is a better[i place to live than Costa Rica? Haitians are [i]better[i] off than Barbadians? Rwandans would assimilate more easily into the US than Norwegians.
Do you agree or disagree with any of these propositions? If so how do decide? Is it personal caprice, or do you toss a coin and let the gods decide? On the other hand, if you were considering emigrating to any of the Trump Sithole countries mentioned above are there [i]any] facts or factors which you think might be worth investigating first?
That is not the truth...//
OK, Eddie, I think you have some respect for the truth, so some questions (they're not hard): El Salvador is a better[i place to live than Costa Rica? Haitians are [i]better[i] off than Barbadians? Rwandans would assimilate more easily into the US than Norwegians.
Do you agree or disagree with any of these propositions? If so how do decide? Is it personal caprice, or do you toss a coin and let the gods decide? On the other hand, if you were considering emigrating to any of the Trump Sithole countries mentioned above are there [i]any] facts or factors which you think might be worth investigating first?
andy-hughes, //You are side-tracking again.//
Not so. I’m responding to your posts.
//It is clear that you do difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact, because you regard what President Trump said as being fact, when clearly it is opinion//
I regard the President’s opinion as fact simply because in my experience it is …. and for all you know it may well be his experience too. Since you have no personal experience your claim can only be a product of your imagination and as such is entirely without foundation.
Not so. I’m responding to your posts.
//It is clear that you do difficulty in recognising the difference between opinion and fact, because you regard what President Trump said as being fact, when clearly it is opinion//
I regard the President’s opinion as fact simply because in my experience it is …. and for all you know it may well be his experience too. Since you have no personal experience your claim can only be a product of your imagination and as such is entirely without foundation.
The issue isn't whether or not El Salvador or Haiti are bad places to live. Everyone already knows that they are. And if a private individual citizen wants to call them chitholes... well, it's a tad derogatory and mean-spirited (as it is not the fault of the people who live there), but nought to do.
The U.S. President is not a private citizen, though. He's supposed to represent U.S. values and to some extent to speak for his country. That is his job - to represent his country at its best. His supporters still don't seem to realise that this is even a slightly important part of being President. Nor indeed does the President himself.
Calling unfortunate countries chitholes from such a vaunted position of power and authority is not only a venomous and mean-spirited thing to do (largely because the US has a lot to do with making those countries bad places to live), but it means that the U.S. is represented as a sneering bully that looks down on less fortunate countries - indeed some it has actively sabotaged - and takes positive glee in their misery and misfortune. That is not presidential and it is certainly not the best of American values. But if you're comfortable with government-by-yahoo then there's not much further to go really.
The U.S. President is not a private citizen, though. He's supposed to represent U.S. values and to some extent to speak for his country. That is his job - to represent his country at its best. His supporters still don't seem to realise that this is even a slightly important part of being President. Nor indeed does the President himself.
Calling unfortunate countries chitholes from such a vaunted position of power and authority is not only a venomous and mean-spirited thing to do (largely because the US has a lot to do with making those countries bad places to live), but it means that the U.S. is represented as a sneering bully that looks down on less fortunate countries - indeed some it has actively sabotaged - and takes positive glee in their misery and misfortune. That is not presidential and it is certainly not the best of American values. But if you're comfortable with government-by-yahoo then there's not much further to go really.
Krom, //The U.S. President is not a private citizen//
That’s true, but if this was said at all, and we don’t know for sure that it was, it wasn’t said in public - but of course everything he says and does reaches the press – just like much of what he doesn’t say and do. Memories of Gordon Brown’s notorious blunder spring to mind…. you know when he grumpily called a member of the public ‘a bigoted woman’, never thinking he’d be caught on microphone. Unless you’re a proverbial saint life in the public eye is always very difficult, don’t you think?
That’s true, but if this was said at all, and we don’t know for sure that it was, it wasn’t said in public - but of course everything he says and does reaches the press – just like much of what he doesn’t say and do. Memories of Gordon Brown’s notorious blunder spring to mind…. you know when he grumpily called a member of the public ‘a bigoted woman’, never thinking he’d be caught on microphone. Unless you’re a proverbial saint life in the public eye is always very difficult, don’t you think?
I happen to think Brown was rightly pilloried for that blunder, but I think I see your point.
The thing is, Trump chose to run for the presidency and this comes down to the core criticism that he is fundamentally unsuitable for a leadership role of this magnitude. He has zero self-control, zero awareness about the responsibilities that come with his job, and zero understanding of how politics actually works.
The thing is, Trump chose to run for the presidency and this comes down to the core criticism that he is fundamentally unsuitable for a leadership role of this magnitude. He has zero self-control, zero awareness about the responsibilities that come with his job, and zero understanding of how politics actually works.
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