Should This Landlord Remove His Gollies?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5384909/My-golliwogs-say-insists-pub-landlord.html

Or is there more to this story since he also dares to fly the Union Flag outside his pub?

One reader stated "I am sure he is a member of both UKIP and Britain First".

But then this reader identifies himself as a French PhD Scholar, from Paris, France, so who knows?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // /// That is a spurious argument - the notion that one black man does not find gollies racist, therefore no black person should is simply not sustainable. ///

Couldn't the same be said if one black person found the gollies racist, then every other black person would also? //

That's not what I actually said.

What I said was, because one black person does not find gollies racist, then other black people SHOULD NOT FIND THEM RACIST' is an illogical argument.

Your are asking if one person found gollies to be racist then should other black people WOULD FIND THEM RACIST ALSO - which is not the same point.

The point is, no individual speaks for their entire ethnic group about anything, ever, this is simply one more example of that.

Therefore the notion that because one black person is not offended, there is no offence to be taken by any black person, is not a logical argument.

[anotheoldgit]

spathiphyllum

I disagree the elderly black and Asian people that I see around us, are much more laid back and couldn't care less, than the young more aggressive ones we see around us today.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - // spathiphyllum

I disagree the elderly black and Asian people that I see around us, are much more laid back and couldn't care less, than the young more aggressive ones we see around us today. //

Perhaps we should avoid generalising, and attributing personality traits to people on the basis of their age?

[sp1814]

No the landlord should no remove his dolls.

There are some who will find them offensive, and as has already been pointed out - the fact that some of them appear to be hanging will be a problem when taken into context of the history behind and dolls and what they represent.

These dolls will die out within the next 20 years or so. Kids haven’t yearned for them for decades.

For older people who still like to collect them - let them have their fun.

[vulcan42]

" That is a spurious argument - the notion that one black man does not find gollies racist, therefore no black person should is simply not sustainable."
andy-hughes, you are extremely quick to point out to other people not to remark on something you haven't written. I did not put forward the notion that all black men should not find it racist because one didn't, you decided to add that statement.

[sp1814]

spathiphyllum

I don’t see your reasoning. How could they ever become relevant again?

[hereIam]

I hope the landlord gets to keep them.

[andy-hughes]

Vulcan - // " That is a spurious argument - the notion that one black man does not find gollies racist, therefore no black person should is simply not sustainable."
andy-hughes, you are extremely quick to point out to other people not to remark on something you haven't written. I did not put forward the notion that all black men should not find it racist because one didn't, you decided to add that statement.

You said this -

// Having read the article I notice there was a black man drinking in the pub, so it obviously didn't bother him and he said it wasn't racist. //

Unless your inference which I have interpreted, is that 'a black man is not bothered, and he said it wasn't racist' infers that a black person is not offended, therefore it is not offensive, there is no point whatsoever in quoting him, since the only reason his view is relevant as against anyone else's is that he is black.

I believe my interpretation of your statement is accurate.

[bhg481]

I think he's very foolish for displaying then when he knows that it will offend some people.

[sp1814]

Just a thought that perhaps we should all think about.

If these dolls have no racist connotations, and are just dolls - can anyone remember seeing them in the homes of their black friends growing up?

I literally have never once ever seen a golliwog in any black household.

Now, that’s not to say it never happened...it’s just that we should all acknowledge that what may be perfectly innocuous to one person, is genuinely offensive to someone else.

Or not even offensive. It may simply be something that makes them uncomfortable.

For instance, how many of us would be offended by cartoons taken from Der Stürmer, framed and hung in the looks of a pub?

[sp1814]

I’m interested to hear what the inference is about the black man drinking in the pub.

I understand that he may not think the dolls are racist, or make him uncomfortable or whatever...but what does that mean in the grand scheme of things?

What does one man’s point of view mean in this discussion?

[sp1814]

Re: my previous post, for ‘looks’ read ‘loos’.

Bloody autocorrect.

[douglas9401]

I can see the landlord ending up in a jam with the council.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

I don't think it says if the black man is a regular drinker in the pub, but surely if he is he would be friendly enough with the landlord to suggest that the dolls are upsetting him so could he please take them off display?

No one has suggested that the most offensive doll is the white golly, after all what is it doing, impersonating a true golly. :0)

There is a market stall in my local market, that still sells gollies, so they don't seem to be dying off quite yet.

[andy-hughes]

sp1814 - // I’m interested to hear what the inference is about the black man drinking in the pub.

I understand that he may not think the dolls are racist, or make him uncomfortable or whatever...but what does that mean in the grand scheme of things?

What does one man’s point of view mean in this discussion? //

He was asked on the basis that he was a) drinking in the pub, and b) black.

It's almost a "Here's a black person now, let's get his viewpoint on the issue ..."

although, as I have pointed out, the unspoken inference that because he is black and thinks gollies on display are OK does not mean that they are, or are not offensive - simply that they don't offend him personally.