ChatterBank4 mins ago
Does Immigration Policy Need To Change?
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It has emerged that Theresa May has personally overuled pleas by cabinet ministers - including Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt - to permit more foreign doctors into the country under skilled work visas.
Furthermore, 7000 foreign students who are here legally have been instructed in error by the Home Office to leave the country under the accusation that they faked English language results. The majority of these people have been denied right of appeal, and some have been detained.
From the FT:
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Non-paywalled (but lower quality) link:
https:/
This surely cannot be dismissed as an oversight by a few bad bureaucrats, can it? One of these is a direct example of the PM putting her obsession with arbitrary targets above the interests of UK citizens; the other is an example of immigrants to the UK who have played by the rules and been punished anyway as a direct result of May's beloved "hostile environment."
Could it perhaps be that immigration policy isn't as simple as "Less than 100k"? That perhaps we need a more measured, less hysterical policy that follows due process and treats people fairly? How would you feel if you were an immigrant to the UK?
It has emerged that Theresa May has personally overuled pleas by cabinet ministers - including Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt - to permit more foreign doctors into the country under skilled work visas.
Furthermore, 7000 foreign students who are here legally have been instructed in error by the Home Office to leave the country under the accusation that they faked English language results. The majority of these people have been denied right of appeal, and some have been detained.
From the FT:
https:/
Non-paywalled (but lower quality) link:
https:/
This surely cannot be dismissed as an oversight by a few bad bureaucrats, can it? One of these is a direct example of the PM putting her obsession with arbitrary targets above the interests of UK citizens; the other is an example of immigrants to the UK who have played by the rules and been punished anyway as a direct result of May's beloved "hostile environment."
Could it perhaps be that immigration policy isn't as simple as "Less than 100k"? That perhaps we need a more measured, less hysterical policy that follows due process and treats people fairly? How would you feel if you were an immigrant to the UK?
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//Could it perhaps be that immigration policy isn't as simple as "Less than 100k"? That perhaps we need a more measured, less hysterical policy that follows due process and treats people fairly?//
Yes to most of that. No to the "due process" and "fairly" bits which imply that the UK (or any other country for that matter) has some some kind of duty to import anybody from the rest of the world who wants to come here, or at least consider their request.
A sensible immigration policy (family issues apart) should be based solely on the principle that the newcomers should be good for the people already here. Example: supplying genuine skill shortages.
Yes to most of that. No to the "due process" and "fairly" bits which imply that the UK (or any other country for that matter) has some some kind of duty to import anybody from the rest of the world who wants to come here, or at least consider their request.
A sensible immigration policy (family issues apart) should be based solely on the principle that the newcomers should be good for the people already here. Example: supplying genuine skill shortages.
//the UK (or any other country for that matter) has some some kind of duty to import anybody from the rest of the world who wants to come here,//
Of course it has a duty to consider the request. British citizens have the right to marry foreigners, and British companies have the right to hire them. I don't think anybody is suggesting that every request should be accepted by default. But people who want to come deserve a fair hearing on a case-by-case basis. Migrants who are already here legally need to be treated fairly if we want to call ourselves a law-abiding nation, and they aren't. May's ridiculous "100k max" target for net migration is a damaging fantasy,as evidenced by her refusal to authorise doctors who are plainly needed.
Of course it has a duty to consider the request. British citizens have the right to marry foreigners, and British companies have the right to hire them. I don't think anybody is suggesting that every request should be accepted by default. But people who want to come deserve a fair hearing on a case-by-case basis. Migrants who are already here legally need to be treated fairly if we want to call ourselves a law-abiding nation, and they aren't. May's ridiculous "100k max" target for net migration is a damaging fantasy,as evidenced by her refusal to authorise doctors who are plainly needed.
//Since when did we "need" targets? The aim should be that ALL illegal immigrants are deported.//
We don't need targets. That is what this whole controversy is about. Targets have created a number-obsessed culture within the HO that virtually guarantees corner-cutting, arbitrary cruelty and unfairness towards legal migrants rather than proper investigation to ascertain their status. This is fundamentally why the Windrush scandal happened, why there have been so many disgraceful rulings by the HO over the past few years, and why the events posted in the OP took place.
We don't need targets. That is what this whole controversy is about. Targets have created a number-obsessed culture within the HO that virtually guarantees corner-cutting, arbitrary cruelty and unfairness towards legal migrants rather than proper investigation to ascertain their status. This is fundamentally why the Windrush scandal happened, why there have been so many disgraceful rulings by the HO over the past few years, and why the events posted in the OP took place.
why the insane obsession that skilled medical staff must come from outside the uk? poaching qualified staff from elsewhere after they've been expensively trained because we can't be ar$ed to properly fund training for british trainees is a reprehensible practice. not least because it strips the impoverished training nations of their skills base.
Krom, //Because UK citizens have the right to marry or hire foreigners if they wish to. If the UK govt has no obligation to even consider each case, then that right effectively does not exist.
Nonsense. The UK isn't a dating agency or a job centre. It has no 'duty' to provide a selection of foreigners to suit the whims of its people.
Nonsense. The UK isn't a dating agency or a job centre. It has no 'duty' to provide a selection of foreigners to suit the whims of its people.
//Of course it has a duty to consider the request//
Consider, naomi. Consider. Not "accept". Consider. Con-si-der.
If someone applies to migrate to the UK because they've been offered a job or a proposal of marriage, the government has a duty to consider (there's that word again) their application. If they don't have that obligation, then it means that UK citizens do not have the basic right to hire or marry foreigners at all.
Now, a right is not a guarantee. You have the right to work - but it does not mean you can walk into Microsoft and expect employment. You have the right to pursue happiness - but it does guarantee that you will be happy. Same applies here. A right to marry or hire a foreign citizen obviously does not apply if that person is a danger to the UK, unable to support themselves, if the application is made under false pretences, etc. etc.
Consider, naomi. Consider. Not "accept". Consider. Con-si-der.
If someone applies to migrate to the UK because they've been offered a job or a proposal of marriage, the government has a duty to consider (there's that word again) their application. If they don't have that obligation, then it means that UK citizens do not have the basic right to hire or marry foreigners at all.
Now, a right is not a guarantee. You have the right to work - but it does not mean you can walk into Microsoft and expect employment. You have the right to pursue happiness - but it does guarantee that you will be happy. Same applies here. A right to marry or hire a foreign citizen obviously does not apply if that person is a danger to the UK, unable to support themselves, if the application is made under false pretences, etc. etc.
Immigration Policy needs to change; it needs to get tougher.
Nothing wrong with targets except of course has written above the overall target should be to get rid of all illegals and the environment for illegals should be extremely hostile.
As for letting skilled workers into the Country, yes what is wrong with that with the exception of course has shown by mushroom a post I thoroughly agree with.
What needs to change is the running of the Home Office and I mean the management and training not the Home secretary, who like any Minister or Shadow Minister will not have the detailed knowledge to do it.
Nothing wrong with targets except of course has written above the overall target should be to get rid of all illegals and the environment for illegals should be extremely hostile.
As for letting skilled workers into the Country, yes what is wrong with that with the exception of course has shown by mushroom a post I thoroughly agree with.
What needs to change is the running of the Home Office and I mean the management and training not the Home secretary, who like any Minister or Shadow Minister will not have the detailed knowledge to do it.
I blame neither "Not Forever Amber" Rudd nor her equally incompetent predecessor for the any of this. Apart, of course, from their inability or unwillingness to see the faults and trying to correct them. The Home Office is a "Deep State" institution which operates in its own bureaucratic interests which may coincide from time to time with its formal remit. Or may not.
Or May not.
Or May not.
Firstly, mushroom at 07.19 is absolutely right. With regard to the Indian doctors, they are more needed in India - we should be training our own (although there will always be exceptions in all areas, obviously and a few people move for various reasons.)
All illegal immigrants should be deported. Having said that, the Windrush debacle shows how carefully this need to be applied. They were the soft targets and that's why they were picked on - unforgiveable. That's the result of rigid targets, which have a deleterious effect in most areas if they are not applied carefully and with some 'give' (I'm thinking of Education, the field I know most about).
All illegal immigrants should be deported. Having said that, the Windrush debacle shows how carefully this need to be applied. They were the soft targets and that's why they were picked on - unforgiveable. That's the result of rigid targets, which have a deleterious effect in most areas if they are not applied carefully and with some 'give' (I'm thinking of Education, the field I know most about).
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