So What If We Have A Referendum On The Final Deal, What Will N O Mean?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/12/one-million-students-call-vote-brexit-deal
If it's YES then ok. If it's NO I assume we would leave with no deal so on that basis I'd vote NO and if it turned out to be YES that would still mean we are out. So what are the anti democracy brigade on about surely they would prefer a yes on the deal as they are so desperate to stay attached to the EUSSR some how. I don't get it. Are they saying reject the deal would mean ignoring the 2016 referendum by the back door? Seems a bit underhand.

[jno]

yes/no to what, have a vote or actually voting?

Blair ignored a million people, May might choose to do the same... so how did Blair come out of that?

[ToraToraTora]

the final deal jno, read the article.

[Old_Geezer]

'No' has to mean rejection of any negotiated agreement and exit under no deal/WTO trading rules. 'No' can not mean, "let's delay further, for ever"; nor, "let's not go", as that question has already been decided. It also implies a load of wasted time & money holding a further vote when the chances are that going with what's agreed and entering further negotiations/renegotiations would be a more advantageous rational option. Anyone wanting/campaigning anything other must be trying to prevent real exit.

[Old_Geezer]

Students demand loads of daft things. Someone probably told them, and they believed, that they wouldn't be able to holiday or apply for work outside the UK and they're now concerned about not being able to.

[ToraToraTora]

So "NO" would mean we leave with no deal, that would be my preferred option.

[jno]

I read the article, it was your question I couldn't understand, whether you want a vote or not. As to the outcome, that would depend on the wording of the motion, no?

[ToraToraTora]

it depends on what the options mean jno, that is the point of this discussion. If NO means we leave with NO deal then I am all in favour of the referendum. I suspect though it won't mean that.

[gulliver1]

689 days since the referendum, and still no firm policy from the present government of muppets. Students , MPs, and the public, calling for a second referendum, it's starting to look a little bleak out there for the Outlaws.

[Old_Geezer]

The "outlaws" being those who refuse to accept democratic decisions of the people and government and keep bellyaching about it ?

[youngmafbog]

It's a question I have been asking myself.

I really dont understand what they think they can achieve. I saw the girl on Sky News this morning, oh deary deary me, she got ripped apart on the most basic of questions.

But back to the question. As you say if the answer was yes accept the deal then fine, but if it is no then how can it be anything but go with no deal. Of course it is clear that some see this as a back door to never leaving but others seem to think Tersa the Appeaser is the one doing the deal on the other side, they appear to have no comprehension that a negotiation is between two or more parties. And there is no way the EU will budge an inch, they have made it plain as the nose on your face that they intend to "punish" the UK for having the tenacity to leave their little club.

So "No" and leave with no deal and no payments seems good to me. Clean break and get on with it.

[EDDIE51]

I think a large % of people assume a 'No' vote to the deal means we stay in the EU.But in fact it means we leave with 'no deal' and as said have to go straight to WTO trade rules. That means 15% duty on all exports and imports. A 'no deal' exit has been described as 'the worst possible option' by economists, but it seems to be thought of as a good idea by a lot of AB's members.

[ToraToraTora]

eddie, have day off, "That means 15% duty on all exports and imports." - maybe that's the default but how quick do you think separate deals with most of the world that are not the EU will take? My bet is about 10 second, the deal's for "no deal" will be in place as soon as they know there is "no deal".

[Zacs-Master]

There won’t be a referendum on the final deal.

[mushroom25]

you sure of that, ZM?
http://www.europeanfutures.ed.ac.uk/article-6071

[Zacs-Master]

Yep. No way the government would sanction another farcical, population dividing referendum.

[ichkeria]

There certainly won’t be a referendum where the options are leave with a deal or leave with no deal: that would be farcical.

[Old_Geezer]

Actually the worst possible option would be staying in the EU in all but in the documentation, where it would pretend we've left. The best option would be to strike a decent trade deal with an EU willing to look for a win/win situation; but since few expect them to do more than try to make things difficult for leavers, a clean break may be the best one can get.

[Old_Geezer]

What would be farcical would be any referendum other than 'accept deal' or 'leave without one'.

[EDDIE51]

TTT, China and Canada have been trying to strike a trade deal just between then two of them for over 7 years now and still no deal. So I think your 'about 10 seconds' is a bit wide of the mark.

[ToraToraTora]

the Germans want us to buy their motors, the French their cheese etc, business will find a way over politics.