Why Is This Our Problem?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44342590
We are quite happy to leave it as is, if the EUSSR want a border build one, end of.

[ichkeria]

It is the UK’s problem of course. It’s the U.K. not even NI) that wants to leave the EU - but no one wants a border.
Hasn’t this been done to death here?

[-Talbot-]

Ireland is the only place the EU elite want a border.

[Zacs-Master]

We can’t ‘leave it as it is’ though can we. It’s written into EU legislation. We’re leaving the EU (supposedly). That’s why it’s our problem.

[ToraToraTora]

right, no one wants a border, so leave it as is, if the EU objects they can do what they like on their territory, simples.

[ichkeria]

In your obsession with branding the EU as a latter day Soviet-state empire you and others conveniently dismiss the reality which is actually that the EU, far from wishing to impose its ideal solution - which WOULD be a ‘hard’ border - recognises that that is not in the interests of the countries concerned. A rump Soviet state would have had the walls, searchlights and landmines in long ago

[ToraToraTora]

if there is no wall between my garden and next door I don't have to build one. If my neighbour wants to build one that is their choice.

[Canary42]

Brexiteers - Simple

[ichkeria]

It isnt the EU who will object - no one will object if we can have a situation which pleases everyone. But at the moment no one had come up with an agreeable answer.the status quo would be fine with everyone except the hard Brexiters

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "....recognises that that is not in the interests of the countries concerned." - when has that ever been of any relevance to the EUSSR?

[ichkeria]

You do have tho have to smile at the irony of people who wanted a situation where there are more borders complaining when some raises the issue of .... more borders (!!)

[ToraToraTora]

"the status quo would be fine with everyone except the hard Brexiters " - not true, leave as is, quite happy.

[ichkeria]

Sigh ...

[Zacs-Master]

Have a read of this Tora:
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-return-of-border-analysis-of-irish.html

[jim360]

If you and your neighbour shared a garden, but then you decided you weren't happy with that arrangement, so the neighbour said that maybe you needed to be clearer about how the garden was to be split between you in future, and you said "nah, it's fine as it is", but the neighbour pointed out that how could that be because you didn't want to share anymore...

then it's *your* problem for wanting to change the arrangement in the first place.

You can't have it both ways.

[Zacs-Master]

I think I said that at 14:55.

[jim360]

Indeed. I was just pointing out the fallacy (yet again!) in TTT's analogy.

I don't get how anyone can simultaneously complain about the extent of the "interference" of the EU into this country and how it interacts with its neighbours, while insisting that there is nothing at all to be done other than walk away. It's completely contradictory. Either the effects of EU membership had a mas massive impact, in which case undoing those effects will take time and effort; or they did not, in which case one wonders what Brexiters were moaning about to start with.

[ToraToraTora]

yes jim, I would be changing the arrangement but I'm in no need of an actual wall I know where the border is. If my neighbour on the other hand preferred an actual wall then that is their choice, I'm happy with a piece of rope that marks our land.

[ToraToraTora]

jim at 15:17, no one is saying things do not need undoing, what we are saying is that we can do that ourselves without having to concede all manner of things unnecessarily.

[Zacs-Master]

Using your strange analogy, Tora: The problem is, both you and your neighbours border was under the governance of a third party. You’ve now decided to remove this third party but your neighbour hasn’t.

[jim360]

It's worth adding that the Garden analogy falls down for multiple other reasons, all of which mean that "a rope" won't do either.

The simple fact is that, as a result of Brexit, the island of Ireland has to simultaneously be separated (owing to differing customs rules on either side, assuming that the UK leaves the Customs Union) and together (owing to the Good Friday Agreement, and for that matter how the two parts of Ireland have operated for the last 90 years). Obviously, this is impossible. Equally obviously, this is a problem that *we* created, by deciding to leave before it was worked out how this was to be achieved.

By this I am not meaning to blame those who voted for Brexit, but rather those people (specifically, David Cameron) who brought about the referendum for cynical reasons -- and then ran away once they realised that this hadn't shut the Eurosceptics up.