ChatterBank1 min ago
Brexit, Hard Or Soft?
Do you personally want a hard brexit? A soft brexit? Or is there a middle ground brexit I like to call the //goldilocks brexit// which would be the nice creamy middle drawing pros from hard and soft with hardly any of the cons?
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To pinch minty's catchword 'YIKES!!!'
Seriously, I don't think it can be done. 'Leavers' had a referendum, they voted, they won and they left the government to get on with it. You know, that old-fashioned belief in Democracy that we grew up with.
Tempting for such as May and the Remainers, but the polls (inaccurate as they are) are already showing that those who voted UKIP originally, in order to force a referendum (I'm one of them) and then voted Tory to ensure the Brexit they were promised would transpire, are flooding back to UKIP - which could, at this rate reach 25% of the vote before many moons are out. (not my figures, read it somewhere but seems likely).
Seriously, I don't think it can be done. 'Leavers' had a referendum, they voted, they won and they left the government to get on with it. You know, that old-fashioned belief in Democracy that we grew up with.
Tempting for such as May and the Remainers, but the polls (inaccurate as they are) are already showing that those who voted UKIP originally, in order to force a referendum (I'm one of them) and then voted Tory to ensure the Brexit they were promised would transpire, are flooding back to UKIP - which could, at this rate reach 25% of the vote before many moons are out. (not my figures, read it somewhere but seems likely).
Ironically, a second referendum within a few weeks of the first would possibly IMO have gone the other way as the lies of the Exit campaign were exposed.
But a second referendum now would IMO most certainly increase the Leave majority quite considerably for 2 reasons :-
1. The absolute mess that has transpired since the first. To paraphrase Prince Phillip "Just take the ........ exit"
2. The intransigent (hostile even) and vengeful attitude of the rest of the EU to our declaration of leaving (Article 50).
But I doubt if either side would want to take the risk.
But a second referendum now would IMO most certainly increase the Leave majority quite considerably for 2 reasons :-
1. The absolute mess that has transpired since the first. To paraphrase Prince Phillip "Just take the ........ exit"
2. The intransigent (hostile even) and vengeful attitude of the rest of the EU to our declaration of leaving (Article 50).
But I doubt if either side would want to take the risk.
"c. I can't buy incandescent light bulbs any more."
Be careful, BB! I was once pressed and pressed (by one of our regular contributors) to provide examples how the EU impacted on daily life. I mentioned light bulbs and I never heard the last of it.
The terms "hard" and "soft" Brexit are ridiculous. There is only Brexit. This means the UK leaving the EU and simply behaving as every other non-EU country does. That is, controlling its own affairs and striking deals with whomsoever it wants on terms that suit it.
Interestingly the EU has just struck a trade deal with Japan. There is no question that Japan will have to agree to freedom of movement; no indication that they will comply with a "common rule book" and no sign that they will accede to the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
Because of the timidity of politicians, the refusal by many Remainers to agree that a clean break is both necessary an desirable and most of all the duplicity of the Prime Minister, the country is heading for the worst of both worlds. In would remain semi-shackled to a deteriorating economic bloc, it would lose all the advantages (such that they are) of EU membership, continue to suffer the disadvantages (which are many and various) and be unable to take up any of the advantages and opportunities that Brexit will bring.
Be careful, BB! I was once pressed and pressed (by one of our regular contributors) to provide examples how the EU impacted on daily life. I mentioned light bulbs and I never heard the last of it.
The terms "hard" and "soft" Brexit are ridiculous. There is only Brexit. This means the UK leaving the EU and simply behaving as every other non-EU country does. That is, controlling its own affairs and striking deals with whomsoever it wants on terms that suit it.
Interestingly the EU has just struck a trade deal with Japan. There is no question that Japan will have to agree to freedom of movement; no indication that they will comply with a "common rule book" and no sign that they will accede to the jurisdiction of the ECJ.
Because of the timidity of politicians, the refusal by many Remainers to agree that a clean break is both necessary an desirable and most of all the duplicity of the Prime Minister, the country is heading for the worst of both worlds. In would remain semi-shackled to a deteriorating economic bloc, it would lose all the advantages (such that they are) of EU membership, continue to suffer the disadvantages (which are many and various) and be unable to take up any of the advantages and opportunities that Brexit will bring.
/// I’ll tell you if they had any influence on my decision ///
. . . . . and of course all the other 17,410,741 voters feel exactly the same way as you do. How then do you explain that quite a few went on record within days of the result saying they regretted their Leave vote?
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. . . . . and of course all the other 17,410,741 voters feel exactly the same way as you do. How then do you explain that quite a few went on record within days of the result saying they regretted their Leave vote?
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'Buyers remorse,' Canary, a well-known reaction. Time has brought a deep sea-change as people have seen how nasty the EU can be and wondered if they would like to be subject to them. I've said before that I know at least 5 people who voted remain who would now vote leave. I suspect there are others actually (on good grounds).
"How then do you explain that quite a few went on record within days of the result saying they regretted their Leave vote?"
It's what's known as hard cheese. What exactly is thought to have changed in those few days that made them change their minds? They should have given greater consideration before casting their vote. For the record, as I have said before, I decided in 1992 that, given the opportunity, I would vote for the UK to leave. That was when the Maastricht Treaty was signed and was the day the EU was finally and irrevocably transformed from a "pretend" trading bloc to an embryo supranational state. That was when, in my opinion, the seeds of Brexit were sewn and they were heavily watered and fertilized in 2009 when Lisbon was signed.
There was nothing, but nothing, that any campaign could have done to make me change my mind.
It's what's known as hard cheese. What exactly is thought to have changed in those few days that made them change their minds? They should have given greater consideration before casting their vote. For the record, as I have said before, I decided in 1992 that, given the opportunity, I would vote for the UK to leave. That was when the Maastricht Treaty was signed and was the day the EU was finally and irrevocably transformed from a "pretend" trading bloc to an embryo supranational state. That was when, in my opinion, the seeds of Brexit were sewn and they were heavily watered and fertilized in 2009 when Lisbon was signed.
There was nothing, but nothing, that any campaign could have done to make me change my mind.
Out without compromise. Whilst we bicker amongst ourselves the EUSSR is busy preparing for what it always intended, with the delaying tactics it employed, from day 1.
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