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Brexit - Does Anyone Here Have A Solution For The Irish Border Problem?
So far our politicians have failed to find a workable solution.
Answers
No and I don't think one will be found which will render Brexit totally unworkable.
17:54 Wed 19th Sep 2018
"Surely only goods sold to the EU have to be in line wit EU rules?"
You might think so.
The (perfectly reasonable - or should I say "formal") requirement that goods sold to the EU must meet EU standards is not the whole story.
The "standards" themselves may be designed to protect EU toddlers from getting highly flammable, toxic Chinese teddies imbedded with needles as a Christmas present. And nothing wrong with that. Or the "standards" may be designed to protect inefficient EU manufacturers from competition. (Isn't that Trump's point about American chicken exports?)
But the rules go further. "Fair trade" EU style means that we trade freely with each other, but impose tariffs on those who export to us. So, if Britain outside the EU wants to export a product X to any EU country, totally compliant with the rules of safety, efficiency or whatever, but which uses components Y and Z bought from China at cost price minus the EU tax, then Britain will be breaking the rules of the EU's Customs Union's rules of origin: buy Y from a EU supplier at face value, or buy Y from China and pay a tax (which we have determined) on it.
You might think so.
The (perfectly reasonable - or should I say "formal") requirement that goods sold to the EU must meet EU standards is not the whole story.
The "standards" themselves may be designed to protect EU toddlers from getting highly flammable, toxic Chinese teddies imbedded with needles as a Christmas present. And nothing wrong with that. Or the "standards" may be designed to protect inefficient EU manufacturers from competition. (Isn't that Trump's point about American chicken exports?)
But the rules go further. "Fair trade" EU style means that we trade freely with each other, but impose tariffs on those who export to us. So, if Britain outside the EU wants to export a product X to any EU country, totally compliant with the rules of safety, efficiency or whatever, but which uses components Y and Z bought from China at cost price minus the EU tax, then Britain will be breaking the rules of the EU's Customs Union's rules of origin: buy Y from a EU supplier at face value, or buy Y from China and pay a tax (which we have determined) on it.
Trump may try to claim it's point about American chicken exports but no one is daft enough to be taken in by it. The world and their dog knows that proper hygiene, and living conditions for the animal is the issue, not whether one can find some questionable way to compensate at the end for not bothering earlier, in order to make production cheap.
"...impose tariffs on those who export to us ... but which uses components Y and Z bought from China..."
Whilst that is consistent, it is an extreme interpretation for trade block protectionism. For the finished item one can understand an issue but a component could easily be ignored as long as it isn't too major a part of the whole thing. If components are built in the same way *such that there's a level playing field* then there is no other complaint save for preferential treatment for members; and the trade block countries would be better identifying such parts and emulating the external country's superior manufacturing method themselves; rather than collecting taxes on minor constituent parts. But I guess it's easier to just slap a tax on. Well; as long as it's a low one matching the low level status of the part.
Whilst that is consistent, it is an extreme interpretation for trade block protectionism. For the finished item one can understand an issue but a component could easily be ignored as long as it isn't too major a part of the whole thing. If components are built in the same way *such that there's a level playing field* then there is no other complaint save for preferential treatment for members; and the trade block countries would be better identifying such parts and emulating the external country's superior manufacturing method themselves; rather than collecting taxes on minor constituent parts. But I guess it's easier to just slap a tax on. Well; as long as it's a low one matching the low level status of the part.
The Irish border 'problem' is simply noise.
All this reminds me of Y2K. The sky will fall in and the earth will grind to a halt with planes dropping out the sky and washing machines taking over.
All utter nonsense, trade will continue despite the attempts by Treason May and the treacherous EU bureaucrats.
All this reminds me of Y2K. The sky will fall in and the earth will grind to a halt with planes dropping out the sky and washing machines taking over.
All utter nonsense, trade will continue despite the attempts by Treason May and the treacherous EU bureaucrats.
“The question isn’t ‘will there be a hard border’ : of course there won’t.
It’s more a case of what are the consequences going to be - wait till those immigrants start slipping in :-)”
Then why aren’t they slipping into the UK (via Ireland) now? (Clue: How easy is it to stow away from Calais to Dun Laoghaire? How much easier will it be post-Brexit?)
“To all those advocating the RoI ignore the EU are slightly missing the point, the RoI is part of the EU and the other 26 countries will stand firmly behind her.”
Very loyal of them. But the question I posed at 19:52 yesterday (and a few times prior to that) still stands: “Just what will happen on March 31st next year if the UK leaves with no "deal" agreed? What will happen to lorries travelling from Belfast to Dublin (even bearing in mind this loyalty)?”
“25 countries, come March.”
Is somebody else leaving then, Zacs? There are 28 at present (Ireland and 27 others). There will be 27 next March (Ireland and 26 others).
It’s more a case of what are the consequences going to be - wait till those immigrants start slipping in :-)”
Then why aren’t they slipping into the UK (via Ireland) now? (Clue: How easy is it to stow away from Calais to Dun Laoghaire? How much easier will it be post-Brexit?)
“To all those advocating the RoI ignore the EU are slightly missing the point, the RoI is part of the EU and the other 26 countries will stand firmly behind her.”
Very loyal of them. But the question I posed at 19:52 yesterday (and a few times prior to that) still stands: “Just what will happen on March 31st next year if the UK leaves with no "deal" agreed? What will happen to lorries travelling from Belfast to Dublin (even bearing in mind this loyalty)?”
“25 countries, come March.”
Is somebody else leaving then, Zacs? There are 28 at present (Ireland and 27 others). There will be 27 next March (Ireland and 26 others).
Yes that’s how it is now. Everyone has to abide by the eu rules even if not selling to the EU but surely after Brexit it should be the case that those who still sell to the Eu abide by their rules but those that don’t sell to them don’t.
Why should the whole of the uk be subject to rules when not in the Eu machine?
Why should the whole of the uk be subject to rules when not in the Eu machine?
The EU can wave what they want. If the RoI takes notice it can't be wanting an open border so much. It's an EU problem that can only be solved by an EU exception. And as suggested, tech allows monitoring of an open border so they will still be free to chase wrongdoers who prove that they can't be trusted. But the simpler solution would be for the RoI to decide what it wants more (or least). Life under EU rule, or an open border to the north.
"Why should the whole of the uk be subject to rules when not in the Eu machine?"
They shouldn't. And that's why many people who voted to leave did so. But Mrs May's famous (or perhaps infamous) Chequers plan involves just that. She is trying to bully her MPs and the EU (though I care not a jot about them) that hers is the only plan that will work. Most people with an interest (Leavers and Remainers) don't like it, most MPs don't like it, the EU doesn't like it. So why is it being perpetuated?
They shouldn't. And that's why many people who voted to leave did so. But Mrs May's famous (or perhaps infamous) Chequers plan involves just that. She is trying to bully her MPs and the EU (though I care not a jot about them) that hers is the only plan that will work. Most people with an interest (Leavers and Remainers) don't like it, most MPs don't like it, the EU doesn't like it. So why is it being perpetuated?
I wish people on here would stop saying the Irish border is the EU's problem. According to the Good Friday Agreement it is the joint responsibility of the RoI and UK governments, and it is entirely the UK governments fault that the agreement has been put in jeopardy. The possibly illegal bung to the DUP doesn't help matters either.
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