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Brexit
DOMINIC RAAB , GOES!.
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OG
I did not see the answers that were removed.
This is not primarily about self-interest. It's about the UK shooting itself in the foot (and groin, and lungs), and at the same time causing minor injury to its trading partners in the EU.
They are not so concerned at the minor damage they will experience, but at the huge damage the UK is doing to itself.
If you are no longer economically active, the I guess it makes no difference to you.
But for those of us who pay taxes that fund your pension, and fund the NHS, and all the other benefits you collect, it matters a great deal.
I did not see the answers that were removed.
This is not primarily about self-interest. It's about the UK shooting itself in the foot (and groin, and lungs), and at the same time causing minor injury to its trading partners in the EU.
They are not so concerned at the minor damage they will experience, but at the huge damage the UK is doing to itself.
If you are no longer economically active, the I guess it makes no difference to you.
But for those of us who pay taxes that fund your pension, and fund the NHS, and all the other benefits you collect, it matters a great deal.
// //"I say again, 54% of the public."
Sky poll with a sample of 1,500. (Research by whom?) The DM poll had a sample size of 1,070//
if there is around a 50-50 split then a sample of 2000 will detect a 1% change ( 49-51) - [https://emj.bmj.com/content/20/5/453]
ijk loves UK with a passion and is moving his lot to Estonia - like jacob R _ M - the fambly trust is now in Dublin ( a famous part of the UK)
jesus AB is quite something at night !
Sky poll with a sample of 1,500. (Research by whom?) The DM poll had a sample size of 1,070//
if there is around a 50-50 split then a sample of 2000 will detect a 1% change ( 49-51) - [https://emj.bmj.com/content/20/5/453]
ijk loves UK with a passion and is moving his lot to Estonia - like jacob R _ M - the fambly trust is now in Dublin ( a famous part of the UK)
jesus AB is quite something at night !
PP
I like you.
I love the UK.
If I leave mybusiness in the UK, we have no idea what the future looks like.
There is no clarity on copyright protection; no clarity on VAT; no clarity on the value of the GBP and no clarity evon on who is responsible for Brexit today or tomorrow.
If the UK governamnt cannot provide clarity, then, despite all emotion, I have to move out.
I regret it deeply, But the choice I have is uncertaintly over the future and the risk of losing everything, or certainty about future trade.
It's not a decision I want to make.
But this governemt has created an environment that means I have no realistic choice.
I like you.
I love the UK.
If I leave mybusiness in the UK, we have no idea what the future looks like.
There is no clarity on copyright protection; no clarity on VAT; no clarity on the value of the GBP and no clarity evon on who is responsible for Brexit today or tomorrow.
If the UK governamnt cannot provide clarity, then, despite all emotion, I have to move out.
I regret it deeply, But the choice I have is uncertaintly over the future and the risk of losing everything, or certainty about future trade.
It's not a decision I want to make.
But this governemt has created an environment that means I have no realistic choice.
IJKLM //If the UK governamnt cannot provide clarity, then, despite all emotion, I have to move out.
I regret it deeply, But the choice I have is uncertaintly over the future and the risk of losing everything, or certainty about future trade.
It's not a decision I want to make.
But this governemt has created an environment that means I have no realistic choice.//
Bye-bye, auf Wiedersehen, Adios compadre!
I regret it deeply, But the choice I have is uncertaintly over the future and the risk of losing everything, or certainty about future trade.
It's not a decision I want to make.
But this governemt has created an environment that means I have no realistic choice.//
Bye-bye, auf Wiedersehen, Adios compadre!
Hi Khandro
Do I take it you mean that you'd like to see me move my profitable, tax-paying, people-employing business out of the UK?
If so, you demonstrate that your analysis matches the fantasies of the leave-at-any-price Brextremists.
You appear to want net tax contributors to send their taxes elsewhere. You appear to want jobs to move overseas
As more net tax contributors decide to move their businesses and the associated jobs out of the UK, the tax burden will fall more and more on the people and business that remain, while unemployment starts to rise. Not a desireable outcome.
Or maybe you think the Brexit dividend will compensate for that.
Do I take it you mean that you'd like to see me move my profitable, tax-paying, people-employing business out of the UK?
If so, you demonstrate that your analysis matches the fantasies of the leave-at-any-price Brextremists.
You appear to want net tax contributors to send their taxes elsewhere. You appear to want jobs to move overseas
As more net tax contributors decide to move their businesses and the associated jobs out of the UK, the tax burden will fall more and more on the people and business that remain, while unemployment starts to rise. Not a desireable outcome.
Or maybe you think the Brexit dividend will compensate for that.
“And then a few of us went out for a nice dinner.”
Must be a Brussels thing, IJKLM! :-)
“No-one can quite believe how idiotic the Brits are for leaving.”
All that demonstrates is a lack of wider thought. Certainly leaving the EU (properly, not as this “deal” dictates) is likely to cause short term difficulties for the UK and if your sovereignty is for sale to the highest bidder then leaving is not the best idea. However, if you value your independence and do not want to be under the ever-increasing influence of a foreign power then there really is no choice.
It’s a very great shame because the idea of a “Common Market” with common standards and frictionless trade is a great idea. Unfortunately for many Brits the EU’s requirements to enable such facilities come at too higher price and its undoubted march towards a single Federal State is too much for us to swallow. I guess it shows a fundamental difference between us Brits and our continental friends and Mrs May’s capitulation (sorry, “deal”) does nothing to ease our discomfort with the European Project. I think Professor Maisie’s earlier summary explains why perfectly.
Must be a Brussels thing, IJKLM! :-)
“No-one can quite believe how idiotic the Brits are for leaving.”
All that demonstrates is a lack of wider thought. Certainly leaving the EU (properly, not as this “deal” dictates) is likely to cause short term difficulties for the UK and if your sovereignty is for sale to the highest bidder then leaving is not the best idea. However, if you value your independence and do not want to be under the ever-increasing influence of a foreign power then there really is no choice.
It’s a very great shame because the idea of a “Common Market” with common standards and frictionless trade is a great idea. Unfortunately for many Brits the EU’s requirements to enable such facilities come at too higher price and its undoubted march towards a single Federal State is too much for us to swallow. I guess it shows a fundamental difference between us Brits and our continental friends and Mrs May’s capitulation (sorry, “deal”) does nothing to ease our discomfort with the European Project. I think Professor Maisie’s earlier summary explains why perfectly.
"If you are no longer economically active, the I guess it makes no difference to you.
But for those of us who pay taxes that fund your pension, and fund the NHS, and all the other benefits you collect, it matters a great deal."
I think a few things need pointing out.
Firstly, for many of those who are "economically inactive" the country's success is an issue. Many of them have pension schemes which depend on sound stock market and money market performance. To dismiss them as being unconcerned is a little disingenuous.
Secondly, those in your first group very often make up the numbers in the second. Many of those in receipt of a pensions pay considerable sums in tax (both direct and indirect). They consequently fund the NHS and other public services. More than that, many of them have funded their own pensions (both occupational and State). The fact that the government chose to squander their contributions so leaving the State pension scheme resembling a giant Ponzi scheme is scarcely their fault.
As I said in my earlier post, if you're willing to sell your soul for an easy life then the EU's for you; if not it's not.
But for those of us who pay taxes that fund your pension, and fund the NHS, and all the other benefits you collect, it matters a great deal."
I think a few things need pointing out.
Firstly, for many of those who are "economically inactive" the country's success is an issue. Many of them have pension schemes which depend on sound stock market and money market performance. To dismiss them as being unconcerned is a little disingenuous.
Secondly, those in your first group very often make up the numbers in the second. Many of those in receipt of a pensions pay considerable sums in tax (both direct and indirect). They consequently fund the NHS and other public services. More than that, many of them have funded their own pensions (both occupational and State). The fact that the government chose to squander their contributions so leaving the State pension scheme resembling a giant Ponzi scheme is scarcely their fault.
As I said in my earlier post, if you're willing to sell your soul for an easy life then the EU's for you; if not it's not.
Regardless of the pros and cons of the nuts and bolts of leave / remain, nobody has ever given me a satisfactory answer to address the lack of democracy in the EU, and our politicians have been complicit in this.
Wilson asked us if we wanted to remain in the Common Market, whereas Heath just took us in without asking the people.
Nobody asked our permission for Maastricht, or Lisbon, more contempt from the EU and our own politicians.
So what could happen in the future, if the unelected EU Commissioners decide to take away more of our freedoms, and dilute even further our fragile democracy?
Somebody, please?
Wilson asked us if we wanted to remain in the Common Market, whereas Heath just took us in without asking the people.
Nobody asked our permission for Maastricht, or Lisbon, more contempt from the EU and our own politicians.
So what could happen in the future, if the unelected EU Commissioners decide to take away more of our freedoms, and dilute even further our fragile democracy?
Somebody, please?
Those questions will be dismissed as "pie in the sky", Theland (because the EU hasn't increased its influence over member nations' affairs has it?).
People are far more concerned about being able to take their dog on holiday to Benidorm than worrying about being ruled by unelected foreign civil servants.
People are far more concerned about being able to take their dog on holiday to Benidorm than worrying about being ruled by unelected foreign civil servants.
Union wide budget, had to have a chuckle at that...now then let's think
who are the biggest contributors, ok let's step back a bit, example
x soviet countries now part of the eu...who pay into the pot x amount but take out x amount, for the disfunctional they are a dead weight
who add nothing..but you could say, were here to help...never asked me, or is it just the love of expansion for the sake of it, to the detriment of the biggest mmm who pay for it's expansion, bit like the roman empire..it err caved in went bust, simplified but true
who are the biggest contributors, ok let's step back a bit, example
x soviet countries now part of the eu...who pay into the pot x amount but take out x amount, for the disfunctional they are a dead weight
who add nothing..but you could say, were here to help...never asked me, or is it just the love of expansion for the sake of it, to the detriment of the biggest mmm who pay for it's expansion, bit like the roman empire..it err caved in went bust, simplified but true
Hi NewJudge.
" Must be a Brussels thing" More of a business thing really. Although we don't work together, a couple of us who were there on Thursday have both attended the same events in places as far apart as Guatemala, Ho Chi Minh City, Singapore, Brussels, London, Manchester and probably a few other places as well.
On this occasion it was this place: http://
Sometimes I pick up the tab, sometimes someone else does *shrug*
You are clearly one of the smarter people who support leaving the EU, so I'm going to try to explain some of why I think we should remain.
You say leaving the EU is likely to cause short-term difficulties. This was not the promise during the run-up to the referendum. The suggestion that leaving would have negative consequences was dismissed as 'project fear'
This is a classic low-grade sales technique: Promise that everything will be fantastic...later re-adjust expectations downwards to pain in the short term. Then re-adjust downwards again to tell people that the pain is worth it for the benefits of .... an idealistic, but intangible notion of sovereignty
Not a single supporter of Leaving has been able to propose a realistic plan for withdrawal, expect, 'just leave' As we have discussed before, that is pure fantasy.
It plays to the gallery; It plays to those who want life to be simple and easy, because modern life is anything but simple.
You say that increased government is a bad thing.
Perhaps. My view is that there is a balance between government and corporates. I think it was Keynes who said" Capitalism is the astonishing belief that the nastiest motives of the nastiest men somehow or other work for the best results in the best of all possible worlds."
Capitalism needs to be kept in check and restrained. Human nature will not do that. Governments and legislation can do it, but only if they cannot be pushed around.
In the past, governments were bigger than corporates and could not keep the worst excesses of naked capitalism under control.
Today Apple is bigger than many small States. Google laughs at governments like the UK Starbucks doesn't pay nearly as much tax as your local coffee shop, so they undercut the local sole-trader coffee shop and drive them out of business. Rupert Murdoch says he likes the UK government, because they do what he tells them.
So much for sovereignty.
Google does not like the EU, because the EU is big enough to stand up to them. Murdoch doesn't like the EU, because they can resist his bullying.
Outside the EU, the UK is at the mercy of the large corporates. If you think I'm wrong, look at how much tax Google pays in the UK, and what the UK government did to try to persuade them to pay more; and compare that with how the EU treated Google.
Outside the EU, we can try to strike trade deals, but will China listen to us? Will the United States give us a better deal than they have with the EU?
If you think they will, you have no idea of how hardball trade talks really work. Just look at what May was able to get out of the EU. Pretty much nothing.
That was always the case. The UK is much weaker than the EU or the US or China. And everyone knows it.
The Brextremists might accuse me of hating the UK for saying that, but I have found in life, that telling the truth never served me badly.
" Must be a Brussels thing" More of a business thing really. Although we don't work together, a couple of us who were there on Thursday have both attended the same events in places as far apart as Guatemala, Ho Chi Minh City, Singapore, Brussels, London, Manchester and probably a few other places as well.
On this occasion it was this place: http://
Sometimes I pick up the tab, sometimes someone else does *shrug*
You are clearly one of the smarter people who support leaving the EU, so I'm going to try to explain some of why I think we should remain.
You say leaving the EU is likely to cause short-term difficulties. This was not the promise during the run-up to the referendum. The suggestion that leaving would have negative consequences was dismissed as 'project fear'
This is a classic low-grade sales technique: Promise that everything will be fantastic...later re-adjust expectations downwards to pain in the short term. Then re-adjust downwards again to tell people that the pain is worth it for the benefits of .... an idealistic, but intangible notion of sovereignty
Not a single supporter of Leaving has been able to propose a realistic plan for withdrawal, expect, 'just leave' As we have discussed before, that is pure fantasy.
It plays to the gallery; It plays to those who want life to be simple and easy, because modern life is anything but simple.
You say that increased government is a bad thing.
Perhaps. My view is that there is a balance between government and corporates. I think it was Keynes who said" Capitalism is the astonishing belief that the nastiest motives of the nastiest men somehow or other work for the best results in the best of all possible worlds."
Capitalism needs to be kept in check and restrained. Human nature will not do that. Governments and legislation can do it, but only if they cannot be pushed around.
In the past, governments were bigger than corporates and could not keep the worst excesses of naked capitalism under control.
Today Apple is bigger than many small States. Google laughs at governments like the UK Starbucks doesn't pay nearly as much tax as your local coffee shop, so they undercut the local sole-trader coffee shop and drive them out of business. Rupert Murdoch says he likes the UK government, because they do what he tells them.
So much for sovereignty.
Google does not like the EU, because the EU is big enough to stand up to them. Murdoch doesn't like the EU, because they can resist his bullying.
Outside the EU, the UK is at the mercy of the large corporates. If you think I'm wrong, look at how much tax Google pays in the UK, and what the UK government did to try to persuade them to pay more; and compare that with how the EU treated Google.
Outside the EU, we can try to strike trade deals, but will China listen to us? Will the United States give us a better deal than they have with the EU?
If you think they will, you have no idea of how hardball trade talks really work. Just look at what May was able to get out of the EU. Pretty much nothing.
That was always the case. The UK is much weaker than the EU or the US or China. And everyone knows it.
The Brextremists might accuse me of hating the UK for saying that, but I have found in life, that telling the truth never served me badly.
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