This Is Not Consent!

[woofgang]

I am shocked and disgusted by this especially as a woman did it to another woman.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/thisisnotconsent-fury-after-teens-thong-13581282?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main

[gness]

You can't cop out like that, DD......in what circumstances could a judge think that what knickers we are wearing can be considered as an excuse for rape?

[-Talbot-]

Forget the judge, jury, accused, accuser, defence, prosecution.


Do 'you' think it relevant what kind of underwear a woman wears?

And if so...how and why?

On that I'm off, will read reply tomorrow.

[Deskdiary]

"You can't cop out like that, DD......in what circumstances could a judge think that what knickers we are wearing can be considered as an excuse for rape?"

You're joking right?

The judge felt they were relevant. I don't know whether they are relevant. Importantly you don't know whether they are relevant either.

I'll go with the judge's considered legal opinion rather than your layman opinion.

[sandyRoe]

This case was in Ireland. Would the dress of a woman in the UK be adduced in a similiar case?

[Toorak]

Yes - please see my earlier post

[gness]

Another cop out because you can’t bring yourself to answer the question. Is that because you can’t admit you are wrong or because you think our choice of underwear can be used towards excusing rape?

[andy-hughes]

It looks as though there is a massive consensus on the point of view that a woman's underwear should have no bearing on the notion of her being attacked - and certainly not as a means of offering defence.

As I see it, rape is non-consensual sex, it is robbery with violence, and I struggle to find any objective reason for why a woman's attire can be used to defend a rapist.

That said, I do take DeskDiary's point that the judge allowed this circumstance to be used in evidence, and the defence solicitor used it - as she should because that is her job, and her gender is not relevant.

So although I accept that this was allowed as evidence, I am at a complete loss to see why, and I only hope that there was far more compelling evidence that this man was innocent, than the point of evidence highlighted here.

[youngmafbog]

Totally backward.

I am speechless.

[Deskdiary]

I think a women's choice of underwear is entirely hers. I also think a 'justification' for raping or abusing a woman because of her underwear is utterly abhorrent.

I also think that we should consider those with a greater legal mind than ours should be respected.

I also think a "have you stopped beating your wife" question that you've just posed ("Is that because you can’t admit you are wrong or because you think our choice of underwear can be used towards excusing rape?") suggests to me that you aren't very bright, so I'll just leave this post with my opinion, yet again, that the judge is privy to what we are not, and if he/she feels it is relevant, then surely it must be.

[gness]

So your answer to my questioning your opinion that everything, including choice of underwear, should be used agains a rape victim is that I'm not very bright......now that tells us even more about you that isn't very nice to know, DD....and a little worrying.

[youngmafbog]

"also think that we should consider those with a greater legal mind than ours should be respected. "

I think you mean "also think that we should reconsider those with a greater legal mind than ours should be respected. "

[kvalidir]

With the greatest respect DD, the judge is not on this thread, you are and it's your opinion on whether a girl's knickers can ever be relevant that we're asking.
I gave a scenario ( a chat where she implied what she would be wearing and how that might figure in sex they were planning to have) that tenuously, and I mean really tenuously might have a bearing on it. Even then if she said no at the time it's still rape. Aside from that scenario I genuinely can't see another scenario that might be relevant and I was asking if you could, not the judge, you.

[Deskdiary]

^^^and also with the greatest respect, and I repeat, we don't know why the judge admitted the knickers. But he or she must have done so for a reason. And that is my point. A point that people are struggling (or wilfully) to understand.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

[kvalidir]

I fully understand what you're saying but I am asking YOU if you can think of a reason?

[naomi24]

This is the Daily Mirror. Is there another link to this story?

[naomi24]

Another link ....

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ireland-thong-rape-trial-consent-thisisnotconsent-protests/

... but I can't see anything there to suggest there's more to the story. It makes no sense.

[Deskdiary]

kvadlir - of course I can't think of a reason.

Unlike everybody else on this thread, I wasn't at the trial.

my point (again - even I'm getting bored of it) is that the judge must had had a reason for admitting the knickers as evidence.

Perhaps all of the people who were at the hearing, like gness, could tell me why the judge shoudn't've admitted them.

But the fact of the matter he or she did, and he or she must have done so for a legal reason.

I am genuinely struggling to understand why people find this so difficult.

[naomi24]

^as I said .... it makes no sense.

[gness]

It's not difficult, DD.....try harder. What a woman is wearing should never come into the discussion during a rape trial.....what a woman wears is not a reason to accept that it was okay to rape her.
Do you see that?

Yes, we know that you keep saying the judge must have had a reason.

You are being asked....do you think that what a woman wears should be taken into account when a man is accused of raping her? Not what you've read about the judge...what the judge did or said....you don't have to keep on repeating that.
We can make our own minds up about the judge......so once again....do you think it's okay for a female's knickers to be shown in evidence to help towards an innocent verdict? That a rape victim should have to hold up the knickers she was wearing at the time of the rape?

I think that's as simple as I can make it.

[Deskdiary]

Whoosh