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Could There Be A Return To Terror In Ireland?
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A bomb set off in Derry last night has raised fears that a hard Brexit could see an increase in dissident terror. The New IRA is believed to be responsible.
Garda and PSNI have both expressed concern that in the event of a hard border after Brexit, there could be a new surge of violence from dissidents:
//Several key figures in the dissident groups are due for release from prison in the coming months and they are expected to influence a re-organisation as they focus on the fall-out from Brexit.
A hard Border could potentially open up opportunities for them to recruit members and fundraise through smuggling and other criminal activities.
...
The New IRA, formed in 2012, poses the biggest threat from dissident republicans since the Provisional IRA, according to an assessment by the head of the Garda intelligence and security section, Assistant Commissioner Michael O'Sullivan. That assessment is shared by the PSNI, which is also seriously concerned about the impact of a hard Brexit.//
A bomb set off in Derry last night has raised fears that a hard Brexit could see an increase in dissident terror. The New IRA is believed to be responsible.
Garda and PSNI have both expressed concern that in the event of a hard border after Brexit, there could be a new surge of violence from dissidents:
//Several key figures in the dissident groups are due for release from prison in the coming months and they are expected to influence a re-organisation as they focus on the fall-out from Brexit.
A hard Border could potentially open up opportunities for them to recruit members and fundraise through smuggling and other criminal activities.
...
The New IRA, formed in 2012, poses the biggest threat from dissident republicans since the Provisional IRA, according to an assessment by the head of the Garda intelligence and security section, Assistant Commissioner Michael O'Sullivan. That assessment is shared by the PSNI, which is also seriously concerned about the impact of a hard Brexit.//
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I think the selfish actions of one person has shown disrespect and contempt for all of the work done by the late Mo Mowlam & others recently. That person will be aware of how divisive and damaging her intransigence has been ,but doesn't have the intelligence or courage of her convictions to acknowledge it;shame on her.
The issue here is that the UK is one nation, not four bits. Any rules that apply to it must apply to it all. I support the people of NI who do not want to be treated differently to the rest of the UK (as I would the people from any part of the UK). The UK and Ireland (and a few other places which don’t concern us here) have a “Common Travel Area” meaning people can move without hindrance from one to the other. This is a bilateral agreement and has nothing to do with the EU. Since Ireland is not a member of Schengen it makes no difference to the EU who it allows to cross its borders as those people will be subject to immigration checks if they want to travel to any other EU country. So that’s the movement of people put to bed.
The issue that seems to be contentious is that of goods. It seems that the UK will have no problem allowing free passage of goods from south to north. It is Ireland (or more precisely their EU masters) who seem terrified of non-compliant goods being smuggled into the EU via the Irish border. The volume of goods that cross the Irish border from north to south is miniscule compared to that which arrives in the UK (and hence into the EU) from beyond. Yet only about 2% of that cargo is subject to physical checks. The rest is cleared by methods which do not involve intervention. Instead of worrying about an endless backstop the EU (for it is they who want it) should have spent the last two years liaising with their UK counterparts to extend the methods that work for 98% of the UK’s non-EU inward freight to Ireland. Whether they failed to do so through neglect, indolence or design (my money is on the latter) now is the time to start. To suggest that such a trivial issue should prevent Brexit is why our departure is in such a state.
"...it is merely pointing out the logical contradictions in Leave campaigners' own position; namely, that of wanting to "take back control" of the borders whilst simultaneously ignoring the only land border that exists between the UK and EU."
"Taking back control" involves doing what you want, Jim, not doing what you're told. The UK does not want to impose a hard border in Ireland. and to suggest it must in order to become independent somewhat misses the point.
The issue that seems to be contentious is that of goods. It seems that the UK will have no problem allowing free passage of goods from south to north. It is Ireland (or more precisely their EU masters) who seem terrified of non-compliant goods being smuggled into the EU via the Irish border. The volume of goods that cross the Irish border from north to south is miniscule compared to that which arrives in the UK (and hence into the EU) from beyond. Yet only about 2% of that cargo is subject to physical checks. The rest is cleared by methods which do not involve intervention. Instead of worrying about an endless backstop the EU (for it is they who want it) should have spent the last two years liaising with their UK counterparts to extend the methods that work for 98% of the UK’s non-EU inward freight to Ireland. Whether they failed to do so through neglect, indolence or design (my money is on the latter) now is the time to start. To suggest that such a trivial issue should prevent Brexit is why our departure is in such a state.
"...it is merely pointing out the logical contradictions in Leave campaigners' own position; namely, that of wanting to "take back control" of the borders whilst simultaneously ignoring the only land border that exists between the UK and EU."
"Taking back control" involves doing what you want, Jim, not doing what you're told. The UK does not want to impose a hard border in Ireland. and to suggest it must in order to become independent somewhat misses the point.
The UK must impose a hard border not because it is told to but because that is how separate Customs arrangements work.
The thing, is, though, I agree with the general assertion that the UK should be regarded as a single nation. But the problem of the border is certainly not "trivial" for those who rely on its being practically non-existent, and the practical problems that it presents have therefore to be taken seriously.
The thing, is, though, I agree with the general assertion that the UK should be regarded as a single nation. But the problem of the border is certainly not "trivial" for those who rely on its being practically non-existent, and the practical problems that it presents have therefore to be taken seriously.
OG
People voted to take back control of our borders.
The Brexiters are saying not to do that, they are saying keep an open border. While those positions are completely the opposite of each other, then one side is going to lose.
We cannot have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union. So we either treat NI differently, or we have to stump up money to protect our borders, which will be expensive and what seemingly no one wants on the island.
People voted to take back control of our borders.
The Brexiters are saying not to do that, they are saying keep an open border. While those positions are completely the opposite of each other, then one side is going to lose.
We cannot have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union. So we either treat NI differently, or we have to stump up money to protect our borders, which will be expensive and what seemingly no one wants on the island.
Your argument's flaw is that Brexiters are saying to do just that. Having control one can then decide whether to have a border closed or open or what to do at it. I'm sure this has been explained many times.
We can have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union. We just need an agreement for it to be open. Random (or each time if preferred) checks on goods against the paperwork on arrival, and treated appropriately. These objections have no substance and are only individuals trying to create issues.
We can have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union. We just need an agreement for it to be open. Random (or each time if preferred) checks on goods against the paperwork on arrival, and treated appropriately. These objections have no substance and are only individuals trying to create issues.
//Could There Be A Return To Terror In Ireland?//
For sure. Just wait until that mega-mosque being built in Dublin is finished. There will be terror all right. I believe that Germany has already set the quota for the number of "immigrants" that Eire is to admit. A hard border looks better every time you look at the consequences of an open one.
For sure. Just wait until that mega-mosque being built in Dublin is finished. There will be terror all right. I believe that Germany has already set the quota for the number of "immigrants" that Eire is to admit. A hard border looks better every time you look at the consequences of an open one.
“People voted to take back control of our borders.”
Correct
“The Brexiters are saying not to do that,..”
No they are not. You control your borders by choosing what to do with them (as has been explained 94 times). If you choose to leave them open you are still in control. The UK is quite happy to allow unfettered access from south to north. It’s our friends in the south (prompted by their EU masters) who are not.
“We cannot have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union.”
Yes we can. There was an open border long before the EU and its (or any other) customs union existed.
Correct
“The Brexiters are saying not to do that,..”
No they are not. You control your borders by choosing what to do with them (as has been explained 94 times). If you choose to leave them open you are still in control. The UK is quite happy to allow unfettered access from south to north. It’s our friends in the south (prompted by their EU masters) who are not.
“We cannot have an open border without both sides agreeing to a Customs Union.”
Yes we can. There was an open border long before the EU and its (or any other) customs union existed.
// Yes we can. There was an open border long before the EU and its (or any other) customs union existed. //
If you're referring to the Irish border still, then the UK and Ireland joined at the same time, as you well know by now, and thus this renders null and void any attempt to argue that things were different between the two countries before they joined the EU.
If you're referring to the Irish border still, then the UK and Ireland joined at the same time, as you well know by now, and thus this renders null and void any attempt to argue that things were different between the two countries before they joined the EU.
Also, I'm sorry to repeat this, but taking back control of our borders and leaving the Customs Union absolutely *will* require a Hard border, because inevitably our Customs regulations will diverge from those of the EU. This necessitates a Hard border: if you keep it open, then Customs regulations cannot be respected.
You can want to keep the border open as much as you like: as soon as rules change on one side of the border or the other, then there is the need for a border to ensure that those rules are respected. If you insist otherwise then it's a misunderstanding of how Customs rules work, for there can be no other reason in continuing to ignore this obvious fact. Unless, of course, you are proposing to leave the Customs Union but, entirely of our own choice, always replicate exactly the Customs regulations of the entire EU for the rest of time? Which, of course, is equally nonsensical, because it then presents only the most naive illusion of "control": we would be free to copy everything the EU did, in perpetuity.
I can't see how else to put this: you have got the issue on the Irish border fundamentally wrong.
You can want to keep the border open as much as you like: as soon as rules change on one side of the border or the other, then there is the need for a border to ensure that those rules are respected. If you insist otherwise then it's a misunderstanding of how Customs rules work, for there can be no other reason in continuing to ignore this obvious fact. Unless, of course, you are proposing to leave the Customs Union but, entirely of our own choice, always replicate exactly the Customs regulations of the entire EU for the rest of time? Which, of course, is equally nonsensical, because it then presents only the most naive illusion of "control": we would be free to copy everything the EU did, in perpetuity.
I can't see how else to put this: you have got the issue on the Irish border fundamentally wrong.
I guess government policy is being dictated by lawbreakers.
If we wanted a hard border, and it works, why not?
"Oops! Let me lift my skirts and run! The baddies don't like it!"
Why not have a hard border, massive prison sentences for lawbreakers, and investment in security and Police?
Put the baddies on the back foot.
If we wanted a hard border, and it works, why not?
"Oops! Let me lift my skirts and run! The baddies don't like it!"
Why not have a hard border, massive prison sentences for lawbreakers, and investment in security and Police?
Put the baddies on the back foot.
// You control your borders by choosing what to do with them. If you choose to leave them open you are still in control. //
PMSL. Is that really what people voted for?
No, of course it isn’t. People voted to close our borders with the EU to keep immigrants out. The whole notion of having an open border after brexit is an anathema to the people who voted to leave.
PMSL. Is that really what people voted for?
No, of course it isn’t. People voted to close our borders with the EU to keep immigrants out. The whole notion of having an open border after brexit is an anathema to the people who voted to leave.
Gromit// People voted to close our borders with the EU to keep immigrants out. The whole notion of having an open border after brexit is an anathema to the people who voted to leave.//
This is true, but it wouldn't be a fully open border to the EU, it would only be open to the I.R. because they are also not part of Schengen, so the whole of the British Isles would have closed borders to the EU and rest of the world.
This is true, but it wouldn't be a fully open border to the EU, it would only be open to the I.R. because they are also not part of Schengen, so the whole of the British Isles would have closed borders to the EU and rest of the world.
Jim to NJ, //the UK and Ireland joined at the same time, as you well know by now, and thus this renders null and void any attempt to argue that things were different between the two countries before they joined the EU.//
That makes no sense. Before the two countries were joined in the dubious embrace of the EU, things were different between them. It stands to reason that they had less in common. I think that’s what NJ is saying.
That makes no sense. Before the two countries were joined in the dubious embrace of the EU, things were different between them. It stands to reason that they had less in common. I think that’s what NJ is saying.
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