The Magnificent Seven....

[10ClarionSt]

...............or wot? Not for me. The seven MP's who've resigned are a disgrace. They're hypocrites. One of them said she was ashamed of Labour. However, they are not resigning from the commons. What do their constituents think of them? The people who voted for a Labour MP? If they didn't vote for a Labour MP, why not resign, stand again as an Independent and see how much the people want them? But it's one thing having principles. It's another putting them into practice.

[Old_Geezer]

Manifestos are for a party making promises/describing intents for when they gain power, not for opinion groups who can only set out their arguments in favour of their opinion. Not having a manifesto at the referendum was inevitable, and unrelated to the mess those who wouldn't get behind the final decision have caused.

[Old_Geezer]

Those that wish to leave a party they don't agree with, and set up their own, are at liberty to do so. Worked so well the last time it was tried. Others though may wish to ensure change from within, as is the usual route.

[ichkeria]

The point is, gromit, it has fallen and is falling

[Kromovaracun]

He's only a councillor of course, but I thought this resignation letter by Adam Langelben was pretty devastating:

https://medium.com/@adamlangleben/my-resignation-from-the-labour-party-fa330afacb86?_referrer=twitter

[naomi24]

^Ouch!

[youngmafbog]

"Worked so well the last time it was tried."

If at first you dont succeed try and try again.

Last time circumstances were different. Now you have a virtually unelectable Communist Party and a Liberal Tory Party. There is definitely room for one or more parties to emerge and even, if done correctly, knock out both useless Tories and Labour who are simply not listening to the people.

Personally I will not write anyone off at this point in time.

[gulliver1]

OG 08.51, Manifestos are very very important, they guide you as to what you are voting for , "Hopefully " . The only thing the public had to believe in at the time of the Referendum was" Boris and his Bus " and the Public fell for it.

[Quizmonster]

I suspect - and hope – that the Gang of Seven will fade into insignificance, just as 1980s Gang of Four eventually did.
One of the 7, on Sky News this morning, said she had received ‘massive’ backing from her constituents for her stance in resigning.
How massive? Was the number of backers anywhere near to the increase in size of her majority in 2017? Len McCLuskey asked during a street-interview yesterday whether any of them imagined that the increase they all experienced then came solely from their personal charisma. If so, he suggested, they were living in cloud-cuckoo-land or words very close in effect to those.
Clearly, despite their stated attitudes, it is virtually certain that none of them failed to benefit from the pre-election Labour Party promotion and assistance in the form of party political broadcasting, leafletting, door-to-door canvassing and so forth that all Labour candidates enjoyed.
Their failure to resign and face re-election is a slap in the face to every single one of their constituents who put a cross in the appropriate place with a view simply to getting a Labour Government!

[Kromovaracun]

Langelben is (or was) on Jewish Labour NEC as well. Pretty damning that someone in that position has condemned the Labour leadership so strongly for anti-semitism.

[ToraToraTora]

kromo, that's pretty damming and I wonder how many in the party have similar feelings. Even as a Troy I cannot help but have some sympathy with what I call sensible Labour members, their party has been hijacked by extremists. Perhaps the trickle of those leaving will become a stream as more realise what is happening, perhaps one day we will have a credible opposition to keep the government honest.

[Kromovaracun]

The last election really was very unique though. Nobody seriously expected Labour to do well (indeed this is exactly why May broke her promise not to hold one) and the party effectively had hundreds of campaigns. There was the national one headed by Corbyn and then also those of the 100+ MPs who had just recently VONC'd him and effectively ran anti-Corbyn campaigns in each of their constituencies. We have no way of knowing really which of these was more important in determining the Labour results (or indeed if it was neither and Labour's gains were mostly down to May's ill-advised campaign promises). I don't think there's a pressing need for them to hold by-elections.

[ToraToraTora]

kromo last election was very unusual, almost completely polarised, both sides had enough of the vote to normally return a land slide but they cancelled out. For example Mrs May got 42.4% of the vote, in 1997 Blair got 43.2%, only 0.8% more returned a massive majority. At any other election 42.4 would have returned 100+ seat majority.

[jim360]

I'm not quite sure ymb is right about the Tory Party being Liberal now. It's certainly very divided whatever it is overall. But what gets me is at a time when both parties are in chaos and crisis, and both are moving further and further away from the centre, the two main parties also command a larger total share of the electorate than at any time since like the 1950s or something close to then.

[Gromit]

Jim360,
The larger share of votes for the two main parties can be attributed to the sad demise of the LibDems. By joining the Coalition with the Tories, they let down there core voters, lied and abandoned their principles.and in coalition achieved zilch. It will be a long time before the electorate trustthem again, so we have in effect a two party system.
The higher votes for Labour and Conservatives are not greater approval from the voting public, it is because the electorate have less choice where to put their crosses.

[jim360]

Can be attributed to a lot of things -- personally I think the Lib Dems should not have been so ruthlessly abandoned as they were in 2015. I dare say that many students, in particular, regret their decision now to abandon what was undoubtedly the strongest pro-EU voice in Parliament.

[jno]

students abandoned them because they broke their promise to students. Can hardly blame them for that.

[Ellipsis]

> But what gets me is at a time when both parties are in chaos and crisis, and both are moving further and further away from the centre, the two main parties also command a larger total share of the electorate than at any time since like the 1950s or something close to then

Don't know for sure, but I would hazard a guess that it's to do with non-voters. People at the margins are passionate and turn out to vote. People at the centre, less so. "I'm a passionate Lib Dem supporter" hardly trips off the tongue ...

[ToraToraTora]

also gromit, it can be attributed to the collapse of the UKIP vote, having achieved their objective. The UKIP voters returned to their natural homes in Labour and the Tories.

[Gromit]

Jim360,
The LibDems were traditionally the home of the protest vote - those disenchanted with the Government, but unable to vote for the opposition.
In 2015 the LibDems were the Government, so the public and students looked at their record in power, and rightly gave them the thumbs down.

[jim360]

Oh, were they? I did not know that.