Theresa May: Britain 'may Never Leave At All'

[Kromovaracun]

https://www.businessinsider.com/may-brexit-may-never-happen-at-all-if-mps-reject-her-deal-2019-3?r=US&;IR=T

May has implied that Brexit could end up never happening if her deal is voted down this week.

Do you think this made her deal more likely to get through or less?

[Old_Geezer]

The link makes interesting reading. Hope it's correct re trade figures. The bits I'm aware of, re behaviour of politicians etc. I agree with.

[naomi24]

^Another one who doesn't understand the word 'Leave' - or doesn't want to.

[naomi24]

^That to Jim.

[jim360]

I'm looking at polling data and evidence over dozens of polls conducted since the referendum.

Also, since "Leave" was the only option (other than Remaining) on the ballot in 2016, it's not unreasonable to ask questions about what that meant to its voters -- and to pay attention to their answers.

[naomi24]

Like the word ‘Leave’, the word ‘Principle’ appears equally alien to you, Jim.

[dannyk13]

Jim, what it meant to the voters was a choice between stay and leave and the majority voted to leave, not partially leave.

[jim360]

Are you just going to ignore actual evidence, then?

[cassa333]

Wanting to leave with a deal is different to wanting to leave with the worst deal in the world. There is a difference between wanting a no deal for the sake of it and wanting no deal because of what’s on offer is BAD in every way possible.

A good, pragmatic, mutually beneficial deal would be best of course but in light of the appalling deal on offer no deal is better.

[naomi24]

Jim, Moving the goalposts is one way of appearing to have endorsement for the results you want. Unprincipled to a man ... and woman.

[cassa333]

Questioning the ‘what different people meant by leave’ to make a point is the domain of people who don’t like the result.

It was made abundantly clear leaving ment leaving the customs union and single market. That’s your starting point.

[Kromovaracun]

I'm afraid the word 'leave' just isn't as simple as you think it is, naomi. Certainly not when it comes to talking about how our country trades and the structure of our economy. Leave campaigners campaigned for very differeng things - indeed there were multiple leave campaigns with very different messages all supporting the same option on the ballot paper. That is a matter of public record. There is no evidence at all to suggest that leave voters all wanted to leave without a deal on WTO terms. Or at least none that I am aware of. If you have any, I'm all ears.

Even if they did, though, I think there's still a very difficult question about whether permitting a no-deal exit at this stage is a responsible thing to do or not.

[jim360]

For example, here are two polls that show that Leave voters were split on the question of whether or not May's Deal respects the referendum result, and even on whether or not to have a second referendum:

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/jo0rjepatj/TimesResults_181115_Brexit_W.pdf

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/vuoze5ec9v/Brexit%20update%202.pdf

All Kromo and I are saying is that the Leave voters may only have had one option to vote for, but had different ideas of what that meant, and of what to think now. This isn't about lack of principles, or refusing to believe what Leave means. It is about asking Leave voters what they think and *paying attention* to their answers.

[jim360]

I'll thank you to drop that guff about being unprincipled, Naomi. And what even does that "man... and woman." mean at the end of your post anyway?

[dannyk13]

Kromo //whether permitting a no-deal exit at this stage is a responsible thing to do or not.//
Read the article in my link ^^^

[Rockrose]

Hey I’m allowed to shout wooohooo just as much as you’re allowed to harp on about anti immigration Naomi

[naomi24]

Jim, no, you drop the guff. As unhappy as you were with the result of the referendum there is proof positive on these very pages that following the result you believed that there had been only two choices and that, as promised by the then Prime Minister, ‘Leave’ meant ‘Leave'.

[naomi24]

Rockrose, yes, you are ... and I'm equally allowed to address that.

[Rockrose]

By address it you really mean tell me I’m wrong!

[naomi24]

Rockrose, I haven't told you you're wrong.

[Rockrose]

Ok