Yet Another Defeat For The Government

[ichkeria]

The amendment to the vote I mentioned yesterday has unexpectedly passed!

It’s not legally binding but it does mean that parliament has said “no deal is not an option - ever”

[Old_Geezer]

You seem to be under a delusion, gulliver.

[gulliver1]

And it's starting to look like , I will still be a E/U Citizen on the 30th March 2019.

[cassa333]

We should put a deal together and give it to the EU.

I’m talking a grown up, thought out (I know Oxymoron if there ever was one with out parliment) and mutually beneficial to both the UK and EU.

If it isn’t accepted then remainers should accept that the EU don’t want a grown up deal and walk away.

But remainextremists aren’t living in the real world so it isn’t going to happen until we get rid of the remainextremists and get proper MPs in. Ones that are going to listen and do as mandated.

[cashier]

Anybody think her deal will not be accepted next time? Is It really Teresa May's deal, or did someone else come up with it?

[Old_Geezer]

Surely cassa, that's what we've been trying to do for 2 years, and all we managed from the EU is, "no, reject, tell us again what you want, we've no interest in Irish problems save to use them, you're the issue, we're doing as much as we can, which is nothing save daft suggestions like splitting up your nation, nothing to do with us, all UK fault for realising they need to go, point finger, give us exit money". What point suggesting to do it again when the EU refuses to change position ?

[jim360]

If MPs only do exactly as they are told then what point is there in Parliament at all?

[jno]

not legally binding

like a referendum, then.

[naomi24]

//If MPs only do exactly as they are told then what point is there in Parliament at all? //

Yeah! Labour wins and Conservatives govern. Good idea!

[mushroom25]

now looking like the pm's deal will be going down for the 3rd time
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47564793

if you find yourself riding a dead horse, isn't the best tactic to dismount?

[Old_Geezer]

"...then what point is there in Parliament at all..."

To do exactly what they're told. They represent the view of their constituency and as such should know what that is when debating and voting. If they go against the constituents' wish then they need to justify what, during the debate, persuaded them to vote the other way. Ideally there should be a system whereby constituents should be able to sack a poor representative and appoint someone else whether a GE has been called or not.

Small uncontroversial issues MPs can sort out between themselves. Important issues they need to discover the view of their constituents before debating and voting. For very important issues constituencies are ignored in favour of a whole nation vote (referendum) the result of which all MPs should support.

Plus someone needs to organise all this and ensure it gets done.

[Old_Geezer]

Don't you just flog it, mush ?

[jim360]

// To do exactly what they're told. //

If that is their role (spoiler alert: it's not) then by definition one doesn't need MPs as a "middle man" to implement "what they're told".

But in any case that isn't their role. Representatives are meant to be elected, use their best judgement of what is in the interests of their constituents and the country, and be held accountable for this at the end of their tenure accordingly. It is certainly not "to do as they're told".

[mushroom25]

//Don't you just flog it,//

well you could try buying a bigger whip. or changing riders.
or threatening the horse with termination. or appointing a committee to study the horse. or arranging to visit other parliaments to see how they ride dead horses. or, (and this might be favorite) lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included...….

[Togo]

Jim favours the Soviet system. Whereby the members in the politburo do exactly as ordered by the President. Voters don't matter.....just their votes.

“If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”
Mark Twain

[jim360]

Haha, no I don't.

[Old_Geezer]

It most certainly is the role of a representative otherwise whoever they represent, it isn't their constituents. You seem to suggest they put themselves up as better than everyone else, so representing themselves and their view, is the job. No wonder voter turnout is so low if folk hold that view. They'll realise there's no point in voting.

Yes you do need another to do as they are told, as the rest of us are employed in other jobs.

[jim360]

If you want a representative to do as they are told then they aren't a representative; they are a delegate. It's a very important difference.

The UK Parliament is, and always has been, a representative democracy. That is how it has functioned, and how it should function.

[Togo]

I predict that UKIP will take control of parliament at the next GE. Don't say you weren't warned. When democracy is not served it always, but always, leads to extremism. Violence will certainly ensue after this betrayal by both Houses. Remember the Weimar Republic and article 48? We have May/Juncker and article 50. Overuse of one resulted in the Nazi Regime, overuse of the other will have similar, though perhaps not, identical consequences. History repeats itself.

[Old_Geezer]

Delegates represent. That too is the job. I did say representatives can opt to go against the wishes of their constituents but they should justify it and be subject to getting sacked, given the right criteria, immediately.

[jim360]

// I predict that UKIP will take control of parliament at the next GE. //

I wouldn't be surprised to see them -- or, more likely, the Brexit Party -- make an impression, but I'd be happy to see any bet you make backing your prediction.