Bullying

[january_bug]

This has been in the news a lot recently, but with mentions only for pyhsical bullying.

Whilst I have every sympathy for those children beaten at school (recent injuries shown in the press have been horrendous) I cannot help but feel some concern that the agruably equally traumatic experience of verbal/mental bullying is being overlooked.

My questions, intended to open up a healthy and friendly debate are:

1. Were you bullied at school?


2. Was it physical or mental?


3. Which (or perhaps it was both) was more prevalent at your school?


4. Those of you who know kids currently at school - I'd be interested to hear Qs 1 to 3 as applied to them.


5. Do you agree that mental/verbal bullying is just as damaging as physical attacks, or do you feel kids should stick to the old mantra of "sticks and stones"?

I have my own views, but, as usual, I expect some/many will disagree and I welcome all views and hopefully a debate... if anyone's interested! :-)

[Hermia]

I have to say that bullying made my stronger. Some kids seem to just give up like those poor kids that commit suicide. But I always wanted revenge, not physical revenge on the bullies (although I wouldn't be sorry if I heard they all had horrible lives) but I just wanted to make a success of my life. What got me through school was knowing I would get out and show 'em! I'm not rich or famous, but I have 2 degrees (a BA and a MA),a job I enjoy and I live my life in the way I wish. I'm also quite bloody-minded and won't let people push me around. Whenever I come up against people who want to push me around I just stand my ground. The evil little ******** at school didn't break me so I don't think anyone else has a chance!

[maggie01]

I was never really bullied in the true sense. I was ok till I went to Senior School. You had to go to the school that was in your catchment area, so most of my friends went to a different school. I never seemed to fit in with the other girls so I decided to just work. I didn't do too badly at shcool although I left at 15yrs. It was mostly micky taking really, but it has made me not have a lot of confidence in myself and a bit shy, which sometimes gets mistaken for beeing a bit aloof. So to be truly bullied must be terrible. People say that your school days are the best days of your life but I think reading all your replies, there are a lot of people here who would not agree.

[maggie01]

school even

[january_bug]

Hermia - I have to agree that I share your sentiments, well I try to!!! In the sense that I want to make a success of myself and do feel that "that'll show em". It's good to hear that someone (i.e., you!) have made a success of yourself, despite being bullied. I know it would be petty, so I wouldn't ever do it, but part of me wants to track that one guy down and wave my LLM in his face and say "Thick?! Too stupid to understand economics?! I've got a masters in it you little .." and there we decend into expletives!

That said, to truly beat them, I'd have to have actually have the self-confidence I ought to. And having a guy who loved me and wanted to marry me didn't do the trick. I wonder what will. Hmmmm.

[Gef]

I have taught in mixed comprehensive school in the west of Scotland for 31 years. The school roll has gradually decreased from 1900 to 1200 so it is still a fairly large school.

In all that time there have been very few incidents of serious bullying.

If bullying occurs in the classroom and the teacher is aware of it then they must do something about it - I have and the pupil was excluded.

If it occurs in the playground then someone must be told about it otherwise how can anything be done about it.

[Hermia]

january_bug - have you looked your bully up on FriendsReunited? I looked mine up once and they are all living ordinary lives (some got themselves pregnant after leaving school and they are all doing unskilled humdrum jobs - of course, there is nothing wrong with this, but it's nice to see that all the power and status they had in school amounted to nothing outside it). On a cheerful note, the only girl from my school who has an enviable life (a showbiz career and a semi-famous boyfriend) was a nice, kind-hearted girl at school. So, there is some justice in this world.

I have never been to a school reunion, but if I ever do go to one I buy something fabulous to wear and sweep about the place! (hee hee)

Gef - out of interest, what can teachers do to stop bullying? I'm not blaming teachers BTW, it's just that they seem helpless. I was just told to deal with it myself when I was at school and I just wasn't in a position to do that. My cousin's teacher has tried her best to deal with his bullies. They got suspended, but it just ended up with the bullies beating him up outside school. They beat him worse outside school and now he wishes he hadn't told. I can't see what else can be done short of my aunt moving house. The bullies' parents don't care so no one has any control over them.

[Gef]

Hernia, I appreciate your point. At the end of the day individual teachers can do nothing other than give the child support and pass on information hoping that the hierarchy will do something about it.

If it continues outside of the school then it is a matter for the police but I can understand why some families would not wish to go down this road.

[january_bug]

Hermia - you might have seen up above, I mentioned the guy with the first from Oxford who works at a top London investment bank... he was one of them. One other was (last time I heard) on a sports scholarship in the USA. So - sadly that theory doesn't work for me!

Gef - I appreciate all that you're saying, and I don't believe teachers should be blamed. However, I'm sure you'll know where I'm coming from when I say that some of my teachers handled it APALLINGLY, and others were brilliant. In fact, there were some teachers in my school who no-one would DREAM of bullying anyone during their classes. They were fantastic teachers who commanded respect and authority and people just DIDN'T backchat or make snipes during their lessons. Those used to be my heavenly hours of peace - free to learn and no chance of crying in class for a change! :-D

[surfer mike]

I think most people encounter some form of bullying in their lives mostly in childhood but not exclusively, i have every sympathy for these people..Personally i only ever encountered some bullying, mild in comparison to others, when i was about 12, and i dealt with it the only way i knew by meeting violence with violence and it worked for me, because mainly it was just two kids doing the bullying when it is a gang of kids it is a totally different matter...and much harder to deal with.

[libertie]

Morning Jan-Bug and all.......after I posted yesterday I mentioned this topic to my son last night when I went to his house for dinner and he endorsed what I had said about him and his brother not being aware of much bullying going on when they were at school......and when it did happen it was dealt with firmly by the school who always took it seriously! Interestingly though he did say that it seemed to be more common among the girls! There was also talk of the increase in bullying on the news this morning and it certainly seems to be a huge problem.....with no easy solution unfortunately!!

[january_bug]

Libertie - I'm not at all surprised that you were totally accurate about your own sons' experiences, but of course it's still good to hear it! :-)

I'm still not entirely sure that it IS on the increase. I think it's just that the press are picking up on it at the moment.

I also saw parents of one girl last night blaming TV, film and video games for making children more violent. I am inclined to disagree. I believe that a violent child is a violent child. It may get IDEAS from the TV about technique, but I don't think TV turns a passive pleasant child into an aggressive violent one.

I think your sons were probably right - girls probably do bitch more than boys in general. It just so happens that my experiences were boys being mean to me, but I see that in many instances it's girls threatening/bullying other girls.

You are of course totally right though (as are your sons!) that there is no easy solution.

Just a thought - do you (everyone I mean!) think that children who don't get enough love and attention at home are more likely to be bullies!?!

[libertie]

Well I for one am no expert but I think you have made a good point! Bullies in general have a lack of self esteem and I'm sure that children - rich or poor, bright or not who are loved and encouraged and given lots of positive attention from their parents very rarely bully others!

[Hermia]

I think bullying is worse amongst girls. It also tends to be more about mental bullying which I think can be more damaging. The problem with my all-girls school is that there was so much competition. There was huge pressure to be thin (one of my bullies was anorexic, but I don't think anyone realised it at the time and I do hope she sorted herself out) and beautiful & wear lovely clothes (the poor kids got bullied because they couldn't afford nice clothes). But there was also huge pressure to be clever and successful. When I saw boys of the same age they were still larking about, but us girls all wanted to be perfect. I also don't think girls have the same outlets for their competitive instincts. We had to play netball and do gymnastics at school neither of which give you much opportunity to burn off all the competitiveness and stress. We were once allowed to play rugby, but the teachers got angry because we were all getting rough and dirty - surely that is the point of rugby?! And competiveness was seen as being a tad unfeminine so our competitive instincts had to be stifled which probably means they come out in bad ways.

[january_bug]

Hermia - I think that's a very interesting new point actually - that it's at least partly due to competitiveness. My school was HIGHLY competitive (chemistry test scores were read out top down by one teacher!). I know there was girl-on-girl bullying, even though I wasn't a victim of it myself.

The thing that seems so strange, yet it won't change - is that girls compete over looks, at a time when their bodies are making even the ones who turn out to be the most beautiful, look strange! Bad skin, changing shape, starting periods etc - not really a girl's most beautiful age, yet the age when girls first begin to feel the pressure of looking good. I still can't believe I got upset over people calling me flat chested - i was TWELVE!!!! Fair play though - I'm still flat chested - but you see my point! :-)

But then girls who are involved in sport/majorettes/other competitive things, I'm not sure they're any less bitchy, so perhaps it's just inherent at that age. Doesn't make it any nicer - as we've all agreed!

Hmmmm - still no easy answer!

[libertie]

As I've already stated bullying was never an issue for me at school....but that was a while ago!! However we had to wear school uniform blazer tie etc as did my sons' and I often feel that to a certain extent this helped, okay we all more or less looked the same but it was more than that.....can't explain it really just a feeling of pride and of belonging!

[libertie]

Sorry Jan-Bug me again! Thought you might like to read this!

If a child lives with criticism, he learns to condemn.

If a child lives with hostility, he learns to fight.

If a child lives with ridicule, he learns to be shy.

If a child lives with fear, he learns to be apprehensive.

If a child lives with shame, he learns to feel guilty.

If a child lives with tolerance, he learns to be patient.

If a child lives with encouragement, he learns to be confident.

If a child lives with acceptance, he learns to love.

If a child lives with honesty, he learns what truth is.

If a child lives with fairness, he learns justice.

If a child lives with security, he learns to have faith in himself and those about him.

If a child lives with friendliness, he learns the world is a nice place in which to live to love and be loved.

Anonymous

.

[january_bug]

Cor - that's SOOO true! you musn't apologise for contributing that!!

For every "if" that applies to me, the "he learns to be" applied to!!!

[Dark Angel]

(1) Not really - I was known to be quiet, but was also known for "coming up with good ones" i.e. capable of swapping insults.

(2) There was never any physical abuse in my school, but mental abuse can happen anywhere.

(3) Mental, because there was no physical abuse.

(4) N/A

(5) Yes, mental bullying can be just as damaging as physical.

Some of the insults swaps that I can remember: if someone were to say to me you are fat so you have a fat person to sit next to you (I was not fat, but went through a time I was not extra skinny) well, you are short so you should sit next to ..... (mentioned another short girls name - left the perpetrator gobsmacked!)

If someone were to tease me about not having a boyfriend, I''d probably say something like, "Its better not to have a boyfriend than have one like yours!"

Or if someone were to say "You are stupid" I'd say to them, "Coming from you,it doesn't mean a thing". Or if someone were to say something derogatory about my looks I'd say "That's like ......(an ugly celebrity's name) talking about ........(a beautiful celebrity's name)"

But that''s on my good days. Sometimes inspiration doesn't come, and I can't think of anything, and later say to myself, "Why didn't I think of that?"!!!