Should This Lot Be Called Status Quo Uk?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48021730
Surely the last thing they want is change? They all crave continuing vassalage to the EUSSR.

[jim360]

No.

[ichkeria]

They want to remain in the UK but do politics differently as they explain on their website.

[ichkeria]

Remain in the EU lol :-)

[ToraToraTora]

So what do they plan do "change"?

[ichkeria]

Politics

[ichkeria]

This is also what Lord/Sir/Baron/Field Marshall/ Arch Druid Nigel F wants to do although in his case not exactly sure in what way

[ToraToraTora]

how? what are they going to do? I cannot find a website. All I can find is this https://theindependent.group/

[jim360]

That *is* the website.

[ToraToraTora]

in order to change politics they'd have to win under the current system and no party will change the system that put it in power. That goes for the BP as well of course.

[ToraToraTora]

well it's just a banner page saying:
"politics is broken lets change it"
"we are getting ready to launch something great, check back on April 23 to learn more" - Hardly a manifesto!

[jim360]

Parties do in fact change the system that put them under power quite regularly, even in the UK. FPTP has remained unsullied throughout the process, but it can, and does, happen. The key is *why* they got to power: a party like Change UK, or for that matter the Brexit Party, would have little choice but to respect their mandates of wholesale political change supposing they were to win an election (if they did not, they would get slaughtered at the subsequent election).

Labour and the Tories, however, don't campaign on this issue, at least certainly not in any more than a superficial way. No wonder, because for the time being at least the system has more or less guaranteed them a mutual lock on power since the 1930s.

[jim360]

With regard to the website, I see what you mean. When I looked at it most recently (probably a couple of weeks ago now), there was more information. I think if you visit the site again tomorrow, or later today, it will have more detail.

[ichkeria]

Hmm yes it seems to have changed: presumably in preparation for the launch. The previous version did have broad outlines on policy more by consensus across party lines. I don’t remember too much about changing the voting system although I’m sure that would come into it.
Ironically it’s the nasty old EU which has a much fairer system for its elections. Although I wouldn’t want to see the same exact system used here.

[ToraToraTora]

jim; "Parties do in fact change the system that put them under power quite regularly, even in the UK" - for example?

[jim360]

There were several examples of it in the 19th Century, eg the Reform Acts of 1832 and 1867 (the latter being notable for resulting in the electoral loss for the party that introduced the reform, in the election the year after). More recent examples are, admittedly, hard to come by: in any meaningful way, the last electoral reform of note that applied to the whole UK (that I'm aware of, at least) was in 1948, when Labour did away with University Constituencies among other changes.

But then my point is that the reason that there hasn't been any reform on such issues lately is primarily because the winning parties haven't campaigned on these matters anyway. If the Lib Dems had ever won an election outright then they would certainly have tried to force through their political reforms, eg changes to the Upper House or a move towards PR. But neither of the main parties has cared about electoral reform lately. As long as that remains true then I absolutely concede that nothing will be done; but if Change UK and/or the Brexit Party take over Parliament then for sure they'll work to change things, as for the first time a party would be able to claim a mandate for, and want to implement, that change.

[ichkeria]

The problem Nigel Farage’s party has ultimately is that if UKIP: they are a single issue outfit and if there’s one thing we’ve learned over the last 3 years it’s that concentrating uniquely on Brexit is a harmful occupation :-)
TIG never mentioned Brexit on their old website as I recall. The BP did little else. If they shaft UKIP tho that can only be a good thing

[cassa333]

Well I think The Brexit Party want to change the system so that the number of votes count. If I remember rightly UKIP got a hell of a lot more votes than (was it ) Labour but got no MPs. Not totally sure but either proportional representation of get a better three party choice and perhaps more coalition governments. Although if I’m honest Ithinkless gets done on coalitions but hay ho.

Change UK just want to change the way we look at their new party. Instead of a bunch of no hopers who mostly went against their constituents they want us to take them seriously lol

But to be honest that just a guess

[jim360]

// If I remember rightly UKIP got a hell of a lot more votes than (was it ) Labour but got no MPs. //

Doubt it was Labour. Lib Dems perhaps? In 2015 I think UKIP outpolled Lib Dems by about 1.5 million votes. And yes, it was pretty shocking that this led to exactly one seat.

[pixie374]

This is a problem, that in many areas, it seems to make no difference who people vote for, as it is so heavily weighted in favour of the preferences of previous voters. It does mean there is little competition for the main parties to worry about and makes it very slow and unlikely that anything ever gets changed in any meaningful way.

[ichkeria]

This is why you should consider voting Lib Dem or Change UK then :-)
Have you noticed that the European election is based on a much fairer system :-)

I don’t hold out much hope for the above mentioned parties getting together though. One of the local Libdem councillors was round our house at the weekend and when I asked him about the other party he was quite animated in his disgust: “they’re not proper liberals!” . It was exactly this sort of nonsense that did for the old Liberal SDP alliance