A General Election On October 14 Won’T Change The Law

[ichkeria]

What am I missing?

[gulliver1]

Wouldn't it be Hilarious if there was a G/E on the 14th and Boris Lost, then I would really PMSL.

[Old_Geezer]

A GE may well change the law. It's only held in the event of too many Tory turncoats supporting disdain for democracy. If held and democrats get it, they can repeal anti democracy laws.

[Marshwarble]

Democracy should say we should get out of Europe with the least pain possible - this is the common consensus, for business, for the general public. Anything else should be regarded as anti-democratic.

[ichkeria]

Would the PM get two thirds of MOs to back an election?
That has to be doubtful. I’ve heard complaints that he might have set a trap by leaking an early date, which he could easily go back on. Or could he? Is the date fixed in the bill?
In any case with a law hanging obliging him to ask Brussels for an extension then it might not make sense to delay.
On the matter of the Queen’s Speech, discussion at this link suggests voting it fine would effectively be a VONC in itself
https://skwawkbox.org/2019/09/01/johnsons-queens-speech-will-be-a-confidence-vote-heres-why/

[Old_Geezer]

Democracy said simply leave. Anything else is folks' imagination and wishful thinking. And worse, deliberate propaganda spreading. Folk won't be fooled save those who want to be fooled.

[Gromit]

The referendum said Leave the European Union, and doing that could be very simple and quick. If we joined the Single Market and European Economic Area we could exit the EU tomorrow, and safeguard our trade and avoid break up of the UK.

[ichkeria]

Yes. This was the “soft” versus “hard” Brexit that got us all worked up a couple of years back.
But as I’ve always said Brexit is an idea. Put flesh on that idea and many if its supporters run a mile.
This was always going to be the case once we had an oversimplified referendum without a plan or vision for what sort of Brexit we were proposing. And that lack of vision and consensus bedevilled our negotiations from day one. Our master strategy seemed to be: tell them we might leave without a deal and they’ll sit up and beg. And it seems that fantasy persists to this day.

[jim360]

I don't think that MPs would have enough time to push their bill through Third Reading, Committee stage, all the Lords stages, etc, all just tomorrow. Maybe they could at a pinch. But as I understood things the schedule is likelier to be First Reading, Second Reading, bill passes second reading -- and then *at that point* Johnson tries to table a motion on a General Election. Thus killing the Bill before it ever becomes law.

[Jackdaw33]

People call Boris a clown? He's the sharpest knife in the box.

[Old_Geezer]

Brexit is more than an idea, it a process to leave that must be followed, regardless.

[pixie374]

I've never thought Boris was daft in any way. I wouldn't underestimate him. Hopefully, he will just do what he has said, there is no hope for him otherwise and he must know that.

[jim360]

Today's statement by Johnson was clearly part of his General Election pitch, even if he sounded like he didn't want it. Pretty clear that he's sticking to the "do or die" message. So, since he will almost certainly be blocked from "doing" tomorrow, he'll claim that he was forced into calling for a GE. In some sense, therefore, I agree. He isn't being daft at all. If you want to campaign on a message of Parliament v. the People, then you act reluctant to campaign until Parliament has "forced" your hand.

[ichkeria]

Yes I was think that Jim.
Intervene at a particular time - if you can?
How far does SO24 allow you to go?
Of course by that stage MPs would have no choice but to support an election and hope it went the right way.
What of his negotiations though :-)
I certainly don’t brand Johnson daft, but it’s interesting to probe the possibilities. Because all this is high risk for him.

[pixie374]

Hi Tony:-). Apparently.... we didn't know what we were voting for. And thought that included a deal... lol

[pixie374]

Wrong thread, sorry! But yes, it is a big risk for him, so hopefully he will make sure it is a success.

[ToraToraTora]

what's the problem? If Benn's bill passes, ask the EU for the extention at the same time making it totally clear that we are changing nothing at all. They say no, end of problem, we asked they said no, end of.

[Old_Geezer]

But being contrary, who can guarantee they'd say, "No", rather than laugh their butt off and say,, "Sure, 2050 ok ?"

[ichkeria]

The problem with that Tora is that there are negotiations for a new deal or ways of avoiding the backstop going on: and the Bill allows for that.
I’d have thought the chances of Brussels saying “No” before that had even been fully explored were more or less zero.
Aren’t they desperate to avoid a No Deal? Even more desperate than us ;-)

[naomi24]

//there are negotiations for a new deal//

So much for the EU’s determined ‘There will be no more negotiation’. Who’d a guessed? :o)

[ichkeria]

Although no one seems sure - outside of Number 10, whether there are any negotiations actually going on.
I would not bet money that there is nothing serious happening, but that says more about my curmudgeonly nature.