What Is Our "good Reason"?

[ToraToraTora]

When the EUSSR granted the last extension they said that it would be the last "without good reason" - now I know that the bill currently in the Lords contains the actual wording of the request. What is in there that constitutes a good enough reason for the EUSSR to grant yet another extension? Is there a chance they will not grant the extension assuming it is actually asked for?

[10ClarionSt]

That would be - No Deal is out and we want back in! Simples! Or, stay as we are, as we haven't left yet!
Ooo missus, this is funny!

[Bigbad]

Because there is a vowel in the day of the week.
Because the longer we are in the EU, the more money we have to give them.
Because it’s better for them all round that we stay.

[ToraToraTora]

they can do that now 10cs, by revoking A50 if they can get it through.

[Old_Geezer]

Well to give time for a GE and then leave no-deal immediately of course.
Then the EU can contemplate whether it's faster to simply refuse.

[ToraToraTora]

yes big bad but there is a prevailing view among the Quisling types that the EUSSR is anything but in need of us and we need to prostrate ourselves at their feet and beg forgiveness for our sins in the hope that they will re yoke us.

[jim360]

I mean, that "prevailing view" as you put it is also because, you know, that's the lesson from history. But never let historical truth get in the way of a good rant, huh.

[jim360]

Nobody wants to touch revoking Article 50 without getting consent from the electorate -- and, at the moment, I don't think that consent exists.

[ToraToraTora]

jim, what lesson from history?

[ToraToraTora]

jim: "Nobody wants to touch revoking Article 50 without getting consent from the electorate -- and, at the moment, I don't think that consent exists. " - hang on, they are doing their level best to prevent brexit, just be honest and go the whole hog instead of skulking around finding technicalities to thwart the nation.

[jim360]

The one where, for example, the ECSC, as it then was, was so desperate to have us join that they kept us out for about 15 years prior to 1973.

[Old_Geezer]

Then realised what de Gaulle had achieved saying, "Non", and became keen. Especially after we entered and started contributing.

[ToraToraTora]

yes I see jim they did and we should have stayed out then. So if that attitude persists to this day then they'll refuse an extension? (please!)

[jim360]

// ... hang on, they are doing their level best to prevent brexit ... //

They are doing their level best to prevent No Deal, at least until next year, and they have done their level best -- with the help of the ERG, ie the hardest of Hard Tory Brexiters -- to vote down the only agreed form of Brexit that has been reached so far.

I don't doubt that there are many who privately don't want Brexit at all that publicly say otherwise, and, yes, the Lib Dems are fundamentally against leaving, but in either case neither of them will countenance just straight up revoking the notification unless the British Public endorses that position in a future referendum and/or the next General Election.

[jim360]

That attitude still persists, to an extent. As I've pointed out, even getting an extension to 31st October required some effort, and Macron in particular was leading the suggestion to hard a much shorter second extension, ending in June.

Everything coming out of the EU suggests that, yes, they would rather the UK stay, but no, they are not *desperate* for that to happen.

[ToraToraTora]

so the PM must know that so ask and get knocked back. What will they try next?

[Old_Geezer]

When they know that the EU isn't interested in anything other than we accept their demands, then, "they are doing their level best to prevent No Deal" = "they are doing their level best to prevent Brexit".

Assuming, of course, parliament doesn't opt for accepting the demands that hardly anyone is happy with.

[ichkeria]

Well they are terrified of a no deal Brexit we keep being told.
Isn’t that reason enough?
:-)

[jim360]

// "they are doing their level best to prevent No Deal" = "they are doing their level best to prevent Brexit". //

In practice, yes, that's the effect so far. But, whether or not you accept the evidence that shows No Deal to be damaging, at some scale or other, the fact remains that some people do. It's possible to be opposed to No Deal on your assessment of its own merits, even if you still want to pursue Brexit.

[Old_Geezer]

I know it's been said before but it isn't any form of Brexit if we're still under control and our nation's name is simply off the membership list. May's agreement to the EU demands simply made things worse. Not out, still under control, not able to do our own deals outside of the EU, not even an ineffective voice in the EU, plus unable to out later without permission. There has been no agreed Brexit yet, which is why we need to just go.

[jim360]

// May's agreement to the EU demands... //

Not that it matters any more, but the EU "demand" was originally for the Backstop to apply to the entire UK. Theresa May and her negotiators successfully beat them down to having it apply only to Northern Ireland. It's been in some people's interests to forget this, but the simple fact is that the WA represented at least some measure of compromise, and was far from the total capitulation that people are now describing it as.