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Turkey Is Threatening To "open The Gates" To Europe, Another Good Reason For Us To Leave The Eu?
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// Turkey was morally obliged to prevent folk journeying to where they had no permission, from their country. //
Not really.
Turkey does not want them. The refugees would sooner be in the EU than Turkey, so it is not in their interest to prevent them leaving. If the hordes of Somalis and Eitreaians in the UK suddenly said, actually we’d sooner be in Ireland, would we feel morally obliged to prevent them going? Of course we wouldn’t, and neither does Turkey with Syrians.
Not really.
Turkey does not want them. The refugees would sooner be in the EU than Turkey, so it is not in their interest to prevent them leaving. If the hordes of Somalis and Eitreaians in the UK suddenly said, actually we’d sooner be in Ireland, would we feel morally obliged to prevent them going? Of course we wouldn’t, and neither does Turkey with Syrians.
There are passport controls in force for everyone entering the UK (including for UK passport holders) and always have been, leaving the EU will not change that unless Ireland/Eire stops guarding their border in lieu of the UK guarding the UK's at Northern Ireland's border with Eire and the UK does not set up a border control there. In fact, nothing about people entering the UK will change so far as non-EU entrants such as "the hordes" is concerned. Whether non-EU nationals will now more easily be able to leave Turkey for Europe is irrelevant to your interest in leaving the EU.
Turkey has allowed them in. So they are implicitly accepting them in their country. Any claims they don't want them are superfluous, they have chosen to be charitable and accept them. Now the travellers are safe they have no right to move on further, and Turkey has no moral right to be complicit in such an illegal act by allowing them to.
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Old_Geezer
// Turkey has allowed them in. So they are implicitly accepting them in their country. //
No. The Border is 500 miles long and they cannot stop them illegally entering their country. We are getting scores of illegal immigrants entering our country by boat, but we are NOT implicitly accepting them.
// Any claims they don't want them are superfluous, they have chosen to be charitable and accept them. //
Again No. They have made an agreement with the EU to stop them entering Europe. They are not being charitable, they are protecting the EUs borders for money. It is a business agreement, not a charitable gesture.
// Now the travellers are safe they have no right to move on further, and Turkey has no moral right to be complicit in such an illegal act by allowing them to. //
The EU are responsible for its own borders, not Turkey. If Turkey does not want these people, and they want to go ti Europe, you cannot really blame Turkey for allowing them. If the EU does not like it, they can shore up their own borders.
// Turkey has allowed them in. So they are implicitly accepting them in their country. //
No. The Border is 500 miles long and they cannot stop them illegally entering their country. We are getting scores of illegal immigrants entering our country by boat, but we are NOT implicitly accepting them.
// Any claims they don't want them are superfluous, they have chosen to be charitable and accept them. //
Again No. They have made an agreement with the EU to stop them entering Europe. They are not being charitable, they are protecting the EUs borders for money. It is a business agreement, not a charitable gesture.
// Now the travellers are safe they have no right to move on further, and Turkey has no moral right to be complicit in such an illegal act by allowing them to. //
The EU are responsible for its own borders, not Turkey. If Turkey does not want these people, and they want to go ti Europe, you cannot really blame Turkey for allowing them. If the EU does not like it, they can shore up their own borders.
They didn't send them back though so yes they have accepted. Managing their border is an issue they needed to solve when the country was first formed.
Any agreement with the EU is in addition to existing moral duty and unaffected by it.
It's just the other side of the coin to say the EU are responsible for their common border too. I'm sure they are, which would be why they will have reached a deal with Turkey. Maybe Turkey should reach a deal with the countries from where the immigrants are coming. Except, of course, where those countries are the countries which are unsafe.
Any agreement with the EU is in addition to existing moral duty and unaffected by it.
It's just the other side of the coin to say the EU are responsible for their common border too. I'm sure they are, which would be why they will have reached a deal with Turkey. Maybe Turkey should reach a deal with the countries from where the immigrants are coming. Except, of course, where those countries are the countries which are unsafe.
Old_Geezer
// They didn't send them back though so yes they have accepted. //
They didn’t send them back because they have a deal with the EU to prevent them travelling on to Greece. But the EU have broken the agreement. Turkey are just saying, if you don’t pay us what we agreed, then you can have the problem back.
// They didn't send them back though so yes they have accepted. //
They didn’t send them back because they have a deal with the EU to prevent them travelling on to Greece. But the EU have broken the agreement. Turkey are just saying, if you don’t pay us what we agreed, then you can have the problem back.
It's hardly "back". The EU wasn't the source of the immigrants; and as per my initial statement, countries have a moral duty not to push an immigration issue they have onto another neighbouring country by allowing them to cross the border to where they have no right to be. It's tantamount to aiding and abetting, and certainly tacit approval of lawbreaking; deal or no deal. The problem of illegal crossing of borders is a joint one because a border tends to be shared, and the issue should be worked on together. Perhaps by agreeing a deal ?
// So Brexit would stop them coming over here, would it? Hows'that work then?//
B ogic - brexit will bring heaven on earth n paradise now,
- thiss is so obvious it needs no logic
and paradise is immigrant free
so when we have Brexit, or paradise there will be no imigrants !
as Nigh says after a row of non sequiturs - do keep up !
B ogic - brexit will bring heaven on earth n paradise now,
- thiss is so obvious it needs no logic
and paradise is immigrant free
so when we have Brexit, or paradise there will be no imigrants !
as Nigh says after a row of non sequiturs - do keep up !
//It's hardly "back". The EU wasn't the source of the immigrants; and as per my initial statement, countries have a moral duty not to push an immigration issue they have onto another neighbouring country by allowing them to cross the border to where they have no right to be.//
I don't see how Turkey have any moral obligation to any other country. They have a moral obligation to themselves, and allowing immigrants passage through Turkey en route to other destinations fits the bill just fine. As long as a person has committed no crime, Turkey cannot force them to stay within their borders.
I don't see how Turkey have any moral obligation to any other country. They have a moral obligation to themselves, and allowing immigrants passage through Turkey en route to other destinations fits the bill just fine. As long as a person has committed no crime, Turkey cannot force them to stay within their borders.
// Still obsessing and telling porkies then PP. :o)//
hi Ni - Ok you dont say on a daily basis, "do keep up!" :o) - I am feeling nice today
or if on reflection you DO recollect quipping it just once or twice then
you do and you dont say on a daily basis, "do keep up!" at the same time! :o) :o)
This is AB on a wet afternoon and all truth is here ( official ) - I am Mr Nice Guy
hi Ni - Ok you dont say on a daily basis, "do keep up!" :o) - I am feeling nice today
or if on reflection you DO recollect quipping it just once or twice then
you do and you dont say on a daily basis, "do keep up!" at the same time! :o) :o)
This is AB on a wet afternoon and all truth is here ( official ) - I am Mr Nice Guy
How sad. There are folk who, apparently, feel no one has a moral duty to others. An attitude of, "Blow you Jack I'm ok, even when tacitly approving of others' wrongdoing and illegal activities starting from our country as the base by leaving to where they have no right to be". Might have guessed I'd be the only one thinking otherwise.
//There are folk who, apparently, feel no one has a moral duty to others.//
Not so, I think the UK has a moral duty to take a fair share of immigrants onto our shores. I also don't believe the Turkey (or any other country) should have to bare the burden of mass immigration alone, purely because of their geographical location. Its a big world out there, plenty of room for everyone (and yes, I'm looking at you rich Middle East countries).
Not so, I think the UK has a moral duty to take a fair share of immigrants onto our shores. I also don't believe the Turkey (or any other country) should have to bare the burden of mass immigration alone, purely because of their geographical location. Its a big world out there, plenty of room for everyone (and yes, I'm looking at you rich Middle East countries).
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