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She Should Have Been Given A Parachute ...
Then arrested, what a total tool !
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Your quite right people do have rights and one of those rights is not to have a drunken woman roaming up and down the aisle demanding more wine and random sex wherever available. Insulting behaviour as well. The airline should have landed at the nearest airport had her offloaded, cancelled her air ticket and told her to make her own way home. They should then...
15:40 Wed 08th Jan 2020
naomi - // You don't want it so don't drink it but don't preach to everyone else. Very few of the millions of airline passengers get drunk at airports or on planes. //
I don't believe I am 'preaching' to anyone.
My view is based, not on a killjoy approach to people 'relaxing' before flying, but to considering the very real and present danger of safety for aircraft passengers and crew in flight, experiencing the fall-out from excess alcohol intake.
Maybe if a plane crashes as a direct result of such behaviour, then the situation will be re-assessed, but until then, while airlines can and do achieve such high profits from the encouragement of passengers to drink, nothing will change.
I don't believe I am 'preaching' to anyone.
My view is based, not on a killjoy approach to people 'relaxing' before flying, but to considering the very real and present danger of safety for aircraft passengers and crew in flight, experiencing the fall-out from excess alcohol intake.
Maybe if a plane crashes as a direct result of such behaviour, then the situation will be re-assessed, but until then, while airlines can and do achieve such high profits from the encouragement of passengers to drink, nothing will change.
Naomi - // AH, denying all because of a few is a killjoy approach. You don't like alcohol so you're happy to see it banned. I do like it and I'm not. //
OK, if we are using the 'denying all because of a few' - argument, let's legalise heroin.
There is a small percentage of the population who use it, but it is banned, because society has decreed that it is not acceptable for perfectly valid reasons.
But a 'few' enjoy it perfectly responsibly, and use it in the same way others use alcohol, sanctioned as a revenue source by every government for hundreds of years - so let's legalise and tax it in the same way.
And if you wish to shift the goal posts, let me shift them back again - I am in favour of a ban involving the sale of alcohol in airports, not the sale of alcohol per se, which is an entirely different argument.
OK, if we are using the 'denying all because of a few' - argument, let's legalise heroin.
There is a small percentage of the population who use it, but it is banned, because society has decreed that it is not acceptable for perfectly valid reasons.
But a 'few' enjoy it perfectly responsibly, and use it in the same way others use alcohol, sanctioned as a revenue source by every government for hundreds of years - so let's legalise and tax it in the same way.
And if you wish to shift the goal posts, let me shift them back again - I am in favour of a ban involving the sale of alcohol in airports, not the sale of alcohol per se, which is an entirely different argument.
AH: "First of all, the notion that I 'don't get it as a teetotaller' is absurd - as is the notion of dignifying getting tipsy as 'relaxing'." - Silly comment from a non drinker, "getting tipsy" - perlease having a drink is so much more than the effect, but I see you are a "I don't do it so why should anyone else" merchant
"Just because I don't drink alcohol in airports does not mean I am not entitled to a view of people who do - I don't hunt foxes, but I have a view on people who do." - is it only airports you don't drink at?
"If it's relaxing', then I expect a bar at my dentist - people are far more tense and in need of relaxation there than at an airport!" - yes and why not a place to take drugs etc, getting silly Andy.
"The point is, alcohol at airports is profit driven" - as is all business, what offends you so much?
"Instead of making the responsibility for adults unable to control their own alcohol intake the responsibility of already busy and stretched airline ground crews, why not take away the need for 'strictness' at the gate by stopping people from drinking in the first Place?" - ah punish us all for the actions of the few again.
"Just because I don't drink alcohol in airports does not mean I am not entitled to a view of people who do - I don't hunt foxes, but I have a view on people who do." - is it only airports you don't drink at?
"If it's relaxing', then I expect a bar at my dentist - people are far more tense and in need of relaxation there than at an airport!" - yes and why not a place to take drugs etc, getting silly Andy.
"The point is, alcohol at airports is profit driven" - as is all business, what offends you so much?
"Instead of making the responsibility for adults unable to control their own alcohol intake the responsibility of already busy and stretched airline ground crews, why not take away the need for 'strictness' at the gate by stopping people from drinking in the first Place?" - ah punish us all for the actions of the few again.
Barmaid - // I don't think banning alcohol is the answer. I think people learning to accept responsibility for their own actions might be a step in the right direction.
"I will have 2 glasses of wine and no more" NOT "if the airline sell it, heck I'll get hammered". //
That approach relies on the ability of passengers to behave in a sensible and mature fashion - not treating the prelude to a seven a.m. flight to Lanzarote as though it was the prelude to a three p.m. kick off at Stamford Bridge.
As is increasingly being shown, that level of trust in the general public is misplaced, and for the same reasons that lots of other things are governed, and in some instances banned, i.e. safety, then my view is that alcohol sales in airports should be banned.
"I will have 2 glasses of wine and no more" NOT "if the airline sell it, heck I'll get hammered". //
That approach relies on the ability of passengers to behave in a sensible and mature fashion - not treating the prelude to a seven a.m. flight to Lanzarote as though it was the prelude to a three p.m. kick off at Stamford Bridge.
As is increasingly being shown, that level of trust in the general public is misplaced, and for the same reasons that lots of other things are governed, and in some instances banned, i.e. safety, then my view is that alcohol sales in airports should be banned.
TTT - // AH: "First of all, the notion that I 'don't get it as a teetotaller' is absurd - as is the notion of dignifying getting tipsy as 'relaxing'." - Silly comment from a non drinker, "getting tipsy" - perlease having a drink is so much more than the effect, but I see you are a "I don't do it so why should anyone else" merchant //
Then you see me incorrectly.
As a non-alcohol drinker growing up, I was unique in my wide circle of friends as a non-drinker, but I enjoyed their company in pubs and clubs as they drank and I didn't, did then, and do now. I would never be so arrogant as to assume that because I don't like something everyone else should not like it either, that is not adult behaviour, and I am not guilty of it.
// "Just because I don't drink alcohol in airports does not mean I am not entitled to a view of people who do - I don't hunt foxes, but I have a view on people who do." - is it only airports you don't drink at? //
Obhviously not, I don't drink alcohol anywhere - I don't eat beetroot or seafood or curry or drink lime juice or lemonade or strong coffee for exactly the same reasons, but anyone else is entirely welcome to do so.
"If it's relaxing', then I expect a bar at my dentist - people are far more tense and in need of relaxation there than at an airport!" - yes and why not a place to take drugs etc, getting silly Andy. //
I agree - it is the extension of the argument in favour of alcohol in airports. No-one needs to 'relax' before a flight, any more than they need to 'relax' in the scenarios I outlined, of course it 's silly, so is the defence of 'relaxation' for excess alcohol in airports.
// "The point is, alcohol at airports is profit driven" - as is all business, what offends you so much? //
It doesn't 'offend' my in the slightest. It does, however, disturb me that airports are allowed to exploit human nature for profit, at the potential risk of innocent passengers and crew.
"Instead of making the responsibility for adults unable to control their own alcohol intake the responsibility of already busy and stretched airline ground crews, why not take away the need for 'strictness' at the gate by stopping people from drinking in the first Place?" - ah punish us all for the actions of the few again. //
Not at all.
This is not about 'punishing' people, simply expecting them to be responsible and adult about where they are and what they are doing.
We expect people to be responsible about drinking alcohol and driving cars, because the two combined provide a risk, not to everyone everywhere, but deemed sufficiently serious to legislate because of the potential consequences. I think passengers should adopt a similar of responsibility for the same reasons - some passengers can drink responsibly, but so can some drivers, but the rule applies, drink driving is a punishable offence.
My view is simple - alcohol ands air travel is a dangerous combination for a minority, in the same way alcohol and car driving - if we assess the risks and legislate for the safety of the majority in car travel, why not in air travel.
Then you see me incorrectly.
As a non-alcohol drinker growing up, I was unique in my wide circle of friends as a non-drinker, but I enjoyed their company in pubs and clubs as they drank and I didn't, did then, and do now. I would never be so arrogant as to assume that because I don't like something everyone else should not like it either, that is not adult behaviour, and I am not guilty of it.
// "Just because I don't drink alcohol in airports does not mean I am not entitled to a view of people who do - I don't hunt foxes, but I have a view on people who do." - is it only airports you don't drink at? //
Obhviously not, I don't drink alcohol anywhere - I don't eat beetroot or seafood or curry or drink lime juice or lemonade or strong coffee for exactly the same reasons, but anyone else is entirely welcome to do so.
"If it's relaxing', then I expect a bar at my dentist - people are far more tense and in need of relaxation there than at an airport!" - yes and why not a place to take drugs etc, getting silly Andy. //
I agree - it is the extension of the argument in favour of alcohol in airports. No-one needs to 'relax' before a flight, any more than they need to 'relax' in the scenarios I outlined, of course it 's silly, so is the defence of 'relaxation' for excess alcohol in airports.
// "The point is, alcohol at airports is profit driven" - as is all business, what offends you so much? //
It doesn't 'offend' my in the slightest. It does, however, disturb me that airports are allowed to exploit human nature for profit, at the potential risk of innocent passengers and crew.
"Instead of making the responsibility for adults unable to control their own alcohol intake the responsibility of already busy and stretched airline ground crews, why not take away the need for 'strictness' at the gate by stopping people from drinking in the first Place?" - ah punish us all for the actions of the few again. //
Not at all.
This is not about 'punishing' people, simply expecting them to be responsible and adult about where they are and what they are doing.
We expect people to be responsible about drinking alcohol and driving cars, because the two combined provide a risk, not to everyone everywhere, but deemed sufficiently serious to legislate because of the potential consequences. I think passengers should adopt a similar of responsibility for the same reasons - some passengers can drink responsibly, but so can some drivers, but the rule applies, drink driving is a punishable offence.
My view is simple - alcohol ands air travel is a dangerous combination for a minority, in the same way alcohol and car driving - if we assess the risks and legislate for the safety of the majority in car travel, why not in air travel.
naomi - // I've said this before but I'll say it again. An idea would be to limit each passenger to, say, two drinks before boarding. Allocation could be integrated into boarding passes, which have to be produced to buy anything in a departure lounge. //
An excellent idea, and in direct contravention of your perception of me as a killjoy - I would welcome such a notion.
But since airports are looking for profit over safety, it's not likely to happen any time soon.
An excellent idea, and in direct contravention of your perception of me as a killjoy - I would welcome such a notion.
But since airports are looking for profit over safety, it's not likely to happen any time soon.
If you ban the airport pubs then you will need to ban the airport duty free. Banning or restricting is pointless unles the airport is totally alcohol free. Even then it does not stop those that want to getting hammered before entering the airport - and they will.
Far better would be a central register to stick these, and other violent, passengers on. The Court can place them on and the airlines have to refuse travel.
In addition I see no problem with stopping someone at the gate. It's a simple thing to blow into a 'bag' and if over intoxicated travel refused. And lets face it we really are talking about a minority here plus if this was done the number doing it would reduce massively.
Far better would be a central register to stick these, and other violent, passengers on. The Court can place them on and the airlines have to refuse travel.
In addition I see no problem with stopping someone at the gate. It's a simple thing to blow into a 'bag' and if over intoxicated travel refused. And lets face it we really are talking about a minority here plus if this was done the number doing it would reduce massively.
"An idea would be to limit each passenger to, say, two drinks before boarding."
You could do this by allocating 2 "points" to a boarding pass. When the boarding pass is scanned for alcohol it takes a point off.
Basically saying, you could use peoples boarding passes to try and identify how intoxicated they are.
And yes, there are ways round it but there are ways round life that's just how it is.
You could do this by allocating 2 "points" to a boarding pass. When the boarding pass is scanned for alcohol it takes a point off.
Basically saying, you could use peoples boarding passes to try and identify how intoxicated they are.
And yes, there are ways round it but there are ways round life that's just how it is.
YMB - // If you ban the airport pubs then you will need to ban the airport duty free. Banning or restricting is pointless unles the airport is totally alcohol free. Even then it does not stop those that want to getting hammered before entering the airport - and they will. //
Agreed - but dealing with a small minority of people who are determined to arrive incapable of flying is one thing, but that's a far cry from encouraging anyone and everyone to drink - thereby increasing the odds of air rage - simply to exploit the aspect of human nature that means that bored adults will drink to pass the time when they are waiting to board.
Agreed - but dealing with a small minority of people who are determined to arrive incapable of flying is one thing, but that's a far cry from encouraging anyone and everyone to drink - thereby increasing the odds of air rage - simply to exploit the aspect of human nature that means that bored adults will drink to pass the time when they are waiting to board.
AH: "It doesn't 'offend' my in the slightest. It does, however, disturb me that airports are allowed to exploit human nature for profit" : most business exploits human nature for profit, must have latest Iphone when it's 10 times the price of a functional equivalent, etc.
"This is not about 'punishing' people, simply expecting them to be responsible and adult about where they are and what they are doing. " - it's not the intention to punish people but it is the effect.
The crux of this discussion is that you want to remove something from everyone because of the actions of a few.
I take the points being made and I agree something should be done and I'm open to suggestions but I'm against a blanket ban. Let's get creative.
"This is not about 'punishing' people, simply expecting them to be responsible and adult about where they are and what they are doing. " - it's not the intention to punish people but it is the effect.
The crux of this discussion is that you want to remove something from everyone because of the actions of a few.
I take the points being made and I agree something should be done and I'm open to suggestions but I'm against a blanket ban. Let's get creative.
YMB: "Far better would be a central register to stick these, and other violent, passengers on. The Court can place them on and the airlines have to refuse travel. " - yes that's a good idea, people flying have ID thus they can easily be banned from ever flying again. Publicise that and most will tone it down.
TTT - // The crux of this discussion is that you want to remove something from everyone because of the actions of a few. //
I do - because the actions of a few can potentially lead to the deaths f hundreds of passengers and crew and thousands of citizens living where a commercial airliner crashes.
I am not saying "I don't like it so you can't have it …" I am saying that compromising safety for profit is unacceptable.
I do - because the actions of a few can potentially lead to the deaths f hundreds of passengers and crew and thousands of citizens living where a commercial airliner crashes.
I am not saying "I don't like it so you can't have it …" I am saying that compromising safety for profit is unacceptable.
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