A Full Inquiry Into The Grooming Gang...
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Harvey Weinstein Sentenced To 23 Years In Prison
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Naomi you are so predictable with your reactions!
Whenever you are caught out with a position you are unable to defend, you begin with a schoolmarm's telling off, a standard diversionary tactic that saves you the trouble of actually either attempting to defend what you have said, or admitting that perhaps you were wrong on what you said.
If that fails, you do your 'amused' schtick - Look at Andy - or whomever else you are trying to use to divert attention - what a silly man he is, ha ha ha !
And the final one, which I doubt you will use because I have pre-empted it on this occasion - is simply to ignore my or anyone else's response, and leave the thread altogether.
I expect a version of "I have said all I am saying … / You are entitled to your view (however wrong it clearly is … ) or perhaps the aforementioned silence.
However, your post remains, Khandro advised a particularly repellent assessment of the situation - and you backed him up in it - as do mine calling you, and him, out for your mutual views.
Anyone interested can make up their own mind.
What
Whenever you are caught out with a position you are unable to defend, you begin with a schoolmarm's telling off, a standard diversionary tactic that saves you the trouble of actually either attempting to defend what you have said, or admitting that perhaps you were wrong on what you said.
If that fails, you do your 'amused' schtick - Look at Andy - or whomever else you are trying to use to divert attention - what a silly man he is, ha ha ha !
And the final one, which I doubt you will use because I have pre-empted it on this occasion - is simply to ignore my or anyone else's response, and leave the thread altogether.
I expect a version of "I have said all I am saying … / You are entitled to your view (however wrong it clearly is … ) or perhaps the aforementioned silence.
However, your post remains, Khandro advised a particularly repellent assessment of the situation - and you backed him up in it - as do mine calling you, and him, out for your mutual views.
Anyone interested can make up their own mind.
What
Right. What I actually said was // In fairness I think Khandro has a point. Having been attacked once why would anyone agree to meet up with their attacker again?// I went on to say // None of that excuses what Weinstein has done - nothing gives anyone carte blanche to attack anyone and Weinstein does deserve everything he gets because he is a dirty, horrible, abusive old pervert - but on principle Khandro does have a point. Just saying.//
So no, I didn’t defend Khandro’s point … I said he had a point and asked a question arising from that. Before laying into people, AH, do try to understand what you're actually reading. It helps.
So no, I didn’t defend Khandro’s point … I said he had a point and asked a question arising from that. Before laying into people, AH, do try to understand what you're actually reading. It helps.
Naomi - // Before laying into people, AH, do try to understand what you're actually reading. It helps. //
Back to schoolmarm mode again?
Save yourself the trouble of the other two.
If you think that a woman meeting someone again who has attacked her once is something you don't understand, and clearly you don't by your own admission, then why don't you try acquainting yourself with the concept of manipulation, fear, control, violence, sexual abuse, and the methods used by predatory men to continue to manipulate, control, and abuse vulnerable scared shy defenceless women.
There are a thousand and one things that would damage me permanently that I would not do - but unlike you, that does not prevent me from understanding and sympathising with people who do do those things to themselves, with those consequences, because they are less fortunate in their ability to protect themselves than I am.
That includes women who return to hotel rooms to meet men who have attacked them - it's a pity that it appears to be so difficult for you to understand that just because you would not do that, it is beyond your comprehension that another woman would.
Try reading about that - give yourself a break from Islam, it may educate you in ways that are more relevant and important here in the real world.
Back to schoolmarm mode again?
Save yourself the trouble of the other two.
If you think that a woman meeting someone again who has attacked her once is something you don't understand, and clearly you don't by your own admission, then why don't you try acquainting yourself with the concept of manipulation, fear, control, violence, sexual abuse, and the methods used by predatory men to continue to manipulate, control, and abuse vulnerable scared shy defenceless women.
There are a thousand and one things that would damage me permanently that I would not do - but unlike you, that does not prevent me from understanding and sympathising with people who do do those things to themselves, with those consequences, because they are less fortunate in their ability to protect themselves than I am.
That includes women who return to hotel rooms to meet men who have attacked them - it's a pity that it appears to be so difficult for you to understand that just because you would not do that, it is beyond your comprehension that another woman would.
Try reading about that - give yourself a break from Islam, it may educate you in ways that are more relevant and important here in the real world.
Theland - // Andy, you think I don't empathise?
Hmm.
I need to check my thinking.
What makes you hold that view of me? //
No, you need to broaden your empathy, and understand that just because a woman does not scream or knee her attacker does not mean that she is remiss in not following the patent 'Khandro anti-rape behaviour' strategy.
Clearly you have never heard from a woman face to face what it's like to be raped while paralysed with fear and thinking that giving in to rape may actually save your life, and that screaming and resisting may end it.
Try it - then maybe you'll understand, and not post such crass unfeeling uneducated and unacceptable posts on threads like this in the future.
That will give you a break from endless theological hand-wringing and bring you a valuable dose of someone else's experiences in the real world.
Hmm.
I need to check my thinking.
What makes you hold that view of me? //
No, you need to broaden your empathy, and understand that just because a woman does not scream or knee her attacker does not mean that she is remiss in not following the patent 'Khandro anti-rape behaviour' strategy.
Clearly you have never heard from a woman face to face what it's like to be raped while paralysed with fear and thinking that giving in to rape may actually save your life, and that screaming and resisting may end it.
Try it - then maybe you'll understand, and not post such crass unfeeling uneducated and unacceptable posts on threads like this in the future.
That will give you a break from endless theological hand-wringing and bring you a valuable dose of someone else's experiences in the real world.
Khandro - // AH Please answer this question regarding my earlier "repellent suggestion";
Why would a woman who claimed she had been attacked by HW in a Paris hotel-room, go with him to another hotel-room in London one month later, where (astonishingly) she was attacked again //
Please read my posts at 14:19 and 14:23 - either for the first time, because if you have read them you would not be asking that question.
Or please read them again, because having read them you appear to have failed to understand the points I made.
Why would a woman who claimed she had been attacked by HW in a Paris hotel-room, go with him to another hotel-room in London one month later, where (astonishingly) she was attacked again //
Please read my posts at 14:19 and 14:23 - either for the first time, because if you have read them you would not be asking that question.
Or please read them again, because having read them you appear to have failed to understand the points I made.
Andy - I agree that a woman threatened, groomed, manipulated, will continue to be a victim at the mercy of the perpetrator.
But, Khandro also has a point, and unless we know the individual details of each particular case, then I don't think we can judge, but can ask an opinionated question.
Truly I do empathise.
But, Khandro also has a point, and unless we know the individual details of each particular case, then I don't think we can judge, but can ask an opinionated question.
Truly I do empathise.
Theland - // Andy - I agree that a woman threatened, groomed, manipulated, will continue to be a victim at the mercy of the perpetrator.
But, Khandro also has a point, and unless we know the individual details of each particular case, then I don't think we can judge, but can ask an opinionated question.
Truly I do empathise. //
For the purposes of this debate alone, I will divide women into two distinct sections -
One is the strong and independent woman who would no more put herself in a dangerous situation once, much less more than once, and the other is the weak and unprotected woman who lacks the ability to make self-saving decisions and puts herself in harms way as a matter of course.
Both of these women exist - why is it such a stretch for you to grasp that as a simple example of the myriad differences in human beings and the way they behave?
But, Khandro also has a point, and unless we know the individual details of each particular case, then I don't think we can judge, but can ask an opinionated question.
Truly I do empathise. //
For the purposes of this debate alone, I will divide women into two distinct sections -
One is the strong and independent woman who would no more put herself in a dangerous situation once, much less more than once, and the other is the weak and unprotected woman who lacks the ability to make self-saving decisions and puts herself in harms way as a matter of course.
Both of these women exist - why is it such a stretch for you to grasp that as a simple example of the myriad differences in human beings and the way they behave?
naomi - // AH, Wind your neck in. //
Please don't be offensive - either address the points I am raising, or ignore me, frankly I don't particularly care which.
// Where did I say I don’t sympathise with the victims? //
Nowhere, I said that you do not understand or sympathise generally - I did not make specific reference to individual examples.
Please don't be offensive - either address the points I am raising, or ignore me, frankly I don't particularly care which.
// Where did I say I don’t sympathise with the victims? //
Nowhere, I said that you do not understand or sympathise generally - I did not make specific reference to individual examples.
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