Do You Agree With Labour Calls For Transparancy?

[youngmafbog]

On Sky just now with the shadow chancellor Anneliese Dodds, so no link, labour are calling for more facts and figures on the decisions being mad.

I totally agree with labour. The Government cannot just continue with the 'we and the so called experts' know better so we are not going to give you the exact reason we came to our actions.

Sir Kiers opportunity to shine here I think. I am sure I am not the only one to question the current Governments actions.

[naomi24]

In any situation of crisis, for reasons that should be obvious to all, no government is ever completely transparent. It’s ridiculous to expect it.

//we're all operating with incomplete information.//

We’re not operating at all. We’re sitting on the sidelines watching what’s happening and hopefully doing as we’re asked.

[teacake44]

Yes, I'm not a labour supporter but the government do need to be scrutinised about the decisions they make. And I would also welcome labour to push for the public to wear masks, yet another area that this government have turned a blind eye too, every other country are wearing them.

[jim360]

Granted complete transparency is impossible, but if we are just doing what we are told like good little boys and girls we should have the confidence required that we are being told to do the right things.

[diddlydo]

But that doesn't mean we can't be critical rather than mere bystanders. For example, a number of respected people have said that closing schools has minimal effect on the spread of Covid and yet their closure has brought enormous problems for a large number of people. And there's still no hint of when schools might resume - all sorts of time-frames have been bandied about ranging from after the Easter hols, after half-term, not until September at least. Surely someone must have more idea than that?

[naomi24]

But you are confident we're doing the right things in obeying instructions, Jim. Why do you need to be told more?

[jim360]

Just to be clear, before I answer, I'm not demanding to be told *everything* *now*. Some of this is because, as I said earlier, we** can't expect the Government to know everything about this themselves. But this isn't a war with an enemy who mustn't find out what we're doing, so some of the more typical reasons for secrecy simply aren't present. Where possible and sensible, there's no reason for the Government to hide the data it's using, the modelling it's doing, or the reasons behind its major policy decisions. As diddly asked, for example, why isn't the Government recommending mask use, or why did the Government close Schools? There may be valid answers to these -- in the case of masks, opinion is divided on their efficacy in general use, and the best masks should clearly be reserved for frontline medical staff, so I happen to agree with the Government on that one -- but, valid or invalid, the Public can't be blamed for wanting to know.

Some of this will come out in the inevitable Public Enquiry.

**I just wanted to take some time to clarify that when I say "we", I mean people in general. I'm not referring to any specific group that happens to include me. When I said "we're all operating with incomplete information", then, I was implicitly including the Government and its advisers, not everybody else. It's the same "we" found in scientific papers, when "we" means "the authors, but also anybody else who happens to read this".

[jim360]

A small editing error there. The reference to Public enquiry wasn't meant to be standalone like that. In any case, some of it will come out later, but there's no urgent need for secrecy when more information, or even the knowledge that policy decisions are based on objective assessment of advice, would encourage the trust we need in the people who are leading the response.

[mushroom25]

// And I would also welcome labour to push for the public to wear masks, //

you do realise that doing this will either seriously abstract them from those who really need them, eg health professionals - or their very scarcity (because of NHS needs etc) will mean that the public will be mandated to stay home for want of a mask?

[teacake44]

12.22 With respect mushroom, the UK can produce warships of epic proportions, nuclear submarines, high end luxury items, on the lower scale, babies nappies, wet wipes, carry bags by the trillions, you name it we can produce it. We are looking for a very basic mask, any sort of mask is better than none, the high end masks of course go to front line.
In Italy, Spain, France, China, you name it they are ( the Police) standing on the streets giving millions away to the public, this government is ignoring what other countries are doing, if they know different then they should tell us, but I don't think they do. If this country can't produce a simple basic mask, then the GREAT has gone out of Great Britain shameful, the problem we have is Government can't admit the mistakes their making, so hold back in putting it right for some reason.

[naomi24]

teacake, don't be so quick to condemn. There are shortages in Europe too.

//EU countries have reported shortages of ventilators, personal protective equipment and testing kits - especially in Italy, Spain, the Netherlands and France //

That's what happens when things are in high demand everywhere as this stuff is.

https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/147958

[woofgang]

masks for all are still contentious. I would not support anything that would take proper PPE away from the people who really need it. There are arguments that home made masks can actually make matter worse by catching the virus and letting it nestle nice and close to your mucous membranes in warm damp conditions, by incorrect removal and handling after use which can spread the virus or by making people more likely to touch their faces. As I understand it scientifically the jury is still out...no evidence either way.

[woofgang]

teacake, check the research, any sort of mask is NOT better than none.

[dannyk13]

As someone has previously said, masks will not prevent you from getting Coronavirus, they will only prevent you giving it to others.

[teacake44]

12.55 I think you've missed the whole point I've tried to make. Its not a difficult task to make a bog standard face, we still have hundreds of manufactures that can make them. If they can produce a basic breathing machine, like they are doing, a mask is a drop in the ocean.

[woofgang]

so they should stop making "basic breathing machines" and start making masks?

[teacake44]

13.02 exactly it will prevent you passing it on, and has we don't know who's got it, due to the lack of testing, then it makes sense to wear one, to help prevent the spread. Are we saying that the rest of the world is wrong about wearing masks???

[teacake44]

13.06 You've seem to have you wires crossed, saying something I've not said.

[fiction-factory]

In answer to whoever said we shouldn't have closed schools-
well I was not comfortable working in schools in the final few days when crammed into a tiny room with coughing students and handling loads of text books and exercise books and equipment every lesson. But it was becoming untenable- parents were keeping their children off and teachers were going off sick with symptoms- and the students were in no mood to learn.
Are there any countries who have left their schools open?
Children are less at risk than adults for sure but they go home and come into contact with mum/dad/grandma and so could pass it on.

[naomi24]

teacake, just giving you the facts.

[teacake44]

^^ and has been said many times, we don't know who's got it or carrying it, that's why other countries are masked up, to ( try) and help not spread it, trying to do something about a problem is always better than not doing anything.