324 Covid Deaths Yesterday, And 2,095 Cases Are They Easing Lockdown Too Early ?

[Gromit]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[fiction-factory]

Karl is saying 14% of all those who caught Covid in the UK have died. I think that's wrong. Maybe he means 14% of those who we KNOW had covid.
If he is saying 14% of those who caught Covid died compared to 0.55% in Iceland then surely that has nothing to do with lockdown (since its aim is to reduce the number of infections) but suggests the recovery rates are poor which means the NHS service is poor

[pixie374]

Which people, ynnafymmi? What bugs me is white males trying to play the victim because non-white or female people are finally getting a chance now. It hasn't even evened up, yet, but they still can't seem to cope.

[pixie374]

We don't know, ff. In our care homes, at least in this county and surrounding three... they will only test on nursing units. Not residential or dementia. So, how would we know?

[fiction-factory]

Exactly. That's why I'd be interested to see whether Karl can justify his claims and explain how they prove anything meaningful.
I agree we locked down a few weeks too late but it's easy to say with hindsight. But the public mood at the time was not for lockdown- can anyone show me that they were crying out for lockdown 3 weeks earlier? They would have been dismissed as scare mongerers as we had so few cases. When shielding for vulnerable groups was introduced some people said it was overkill
.

[ynnafymmi]

So you agree with me then,Pixie, all peoples lives matter.The people that i am speaking about are the ones who are screaming BLM,but not giving a damn about white or yellow or brown lives.As i said a bunch of( reverse) racists.

[pixie374]

Of course they all matter ynnafymmi (do you have an acceptable shortened version? :-)). The difference is, I'm white, and have never needed to struggle with it. It isn't a competition.

[Deskdiary]

I’m being a bit dim, which I put down to Sunday beer (which I am fully embracing), but how has race come into this debate?

[ynnafymmi]

I am white also,Pixie.I dont have an issue with it either.But these are white people shouting out BLM while ignoring the fact that all lives matter.I recently watched a programme about the systematic murder of white farmers in South Africa.I was hoping to see some coloured people screaming" white lives matter",but nothing-silence.

[pixie374]

Yes ff, that's what I'm saying it was easy to see with foresight, not just hindsight, but people didn't seem to be ready.

[ynnafymmi]

Sorry,DD,but i was on about the demonstrations in London and the fact that none of the demonstrators were socially distancing...and the fact that some were shouting out slogans within yards of one another.Mayor Khan should be cracking down on these people but he isnt.

[pixie374]

Fan, yes... it is clear you are white. And, I would guess, male. Nobody is suggesting others don't matter... just trying to equalise their own right. Fair enough.

[KARL]

ff, Today's figures for the UK (latest update) are 38,489 deaths from a total of 274,762 - by my reckoning (ratio of the two) that is just a hair above 14% turning into deaths. The figure for Iceland is unchanged (nothing to update: zero new cases).

I concur entirely, the NHS has saved some but far too few were not saved, it failed most of the latter.

You earlier said I was criticising and not offering suggestions, what the UK could have done. I explained that simply doing what others have done would have produced a better result. Admittedly, no particular consideration of lockdown was intended although, as I mentioned, in Iceland's case there was no lockdown yet look at their results. When introduced in the UK lockdown was an urgently needed measure given how things had slid by then - but it was avoidable although as it turns out not in the UK context.

[KARL]

ff 18.42, That too is the point: The UK is the one that struggles to obtain good oversight, provide reliable records - other countries do so much better on that as well (sticking just to this subject). Should we perhaps turn our objective attention inward a bit more rather than denying that others are streets ahead ?

[pixie374]

Karl, Iceland stopped allowing anyone in and did a strict track and trace. We did nothing much.

[Deskdiary]

Karl, you’re wilfully missing the point. You keep bandying the 14% and ignoring (on purpose) the fact, and it is a fact, that the vast vast majority of those who have sadly died are within the vulnerable group.

If 14% is your justification for
maintaining the lockdown, then, simply, you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

[mushroom25]

// I concur entirely, the NHS has saved some but far too few were not saved, it failed most of the latter. //

that's a bit unfair, and makes no allowance for the nature of the virus, which affect different individuals in different ways, and to different degrees. there's no cure and no certain treatment, all the clinicians can do is ease the symptoms and the complications. for those admitted to ITU and ventilated, the survival rate is poor. for those who are not ventilated it's better but still not good.

[KARL]

Pixie, you are correct except Iceland did not unilaterally close its borders. The USA (Trump) stopped travel to/from the EU (protests from Iceland and others) and later the EU/EEA placed restrictions on travel - there have been passenger flights to/from Iceland throughout and to this day, way exceeding the demand.

Deskdiary, The assumption is that if the reduction could have been from 14% to 0.55% on the total then that reduction would have been equal across all age groups, young and old (then the conclusion is as I postulated) - the treatment required will be according to each individual's needs (as anywhere) and carried out successfully or not. You clearly missed that I specifically said, if the UK had adopted the same measures at the same stage(s) as elsewhere then consequently also in the UK there would have been no need for a lockdown - but, like in the other worst European cases, it became necessary/unavoidable here. As for easing the lockdown at this point, the World Beating track and trace scheme now in operation will be watched keenly, inside and outside the UK.

[KARL]

Correction: The EU/EEA restrictions were/are Schengen specific, I believe.

[pixie374]

Ok karl, but the point is, nobody was allowed in without being quarantined, and still aren't. We seemed to allow everyone in who wanted to, safe or not.

[KARL]

Pixie, the blanket quarantine stipulation for all arrivals in Iceland is relatively recent (don't have the date to hand) but the requirement for foreigners was introduced further back (don't have that date either), up to perhaps late April (as the epidemic was effectively over) Icelanders could return without any restriction.