No Going Back To Work

[allenlondon]

Apparently, people who needn’t go back to work aren’t going back to work.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/10/no-rise-in-workers-in-uk-city-centres-despite-back-to-office-plea

Is this inevitable? So many office jobs are far from useful, involving moving bits of paper around, or making phone calls, that people just aren’t going to miss a few million office workers not turning up.

A bit like many hospital clinic consultations, just as effective done by telephone, people might be waking up to the tremendous waste of time that society indulges in.

[woofgang]

I think this will all depend......Like everyone else i have been in contact with various organisations since March, pretty much everyone I spoke to was WFH Some companies (and I guess some individuals) have been fine, easy to contact and very little difference between when I spoke to them in offices. Others not so much. Yes if it becomes the norm, then things will have to change to properly comply with health and safety, data security and so on. No it won't work for every company all the time. But it does work, will work and I think the days of huge crowded office blocks are numbered.

[Cloverjo]

I agree with Naomi.
My son is working from home and is very glad not to get on the train every morning, but I do worry about the knock-on effect. His wife is also working from home and they’re getting on each other’s nerves a bit! She misses the camaraderie of the office.

[jackthehat]

I agree with fiction-factory's first post.
The increase in web-technology means that much office-based work can be conducted from elsewhere than an office building.
The CV19 rules and regulations have simply meant that it happened in a rushed and unstructured manner.
We now need to invest time and money into creating a proper and sustainable framework for people to be able to work from home wherever they can.
Companies will no longer have to pay out for town centre office space - rents only ever travel in one direction - a huge expense on an annual balance sheet. The recent changes in Planning Law (which still need ring-fencing to protect the general public) mean that many such buildings can be converted into dwellings, thereby also easing the housing problems. The more people moving back into town/city centres, the greater the need will be for smaller 'service' businesses.

We need to seize this opportunity to construct a new way of working, where possible, and living. It may have been precipitated by a set of circumstances no-one could have predicted but we'll do ourselves a diservice if all we spend our energies on is trying to return to the 'old' normal.

[archibaldy]

This whole thing is a market within itself and urging people to go and do things because it will benefit other people or businesses just does not work - broadly, human nature does not work like that.

If it becomes such that the people that go into an office get paid more, enjoy their work more, make better connections and are more productive compared to home workers - all of which are possible - then people will begin to go back to offices. Hand wringing about sandwich shops won't make people do this.

[ichkeria]

"A workforce working from home negatively affects every other business around. Without offices there is no trade for anyone else, including shops, pubs, cafes, restaurants, cleaning and maintenance companies … etc. Additionally cabbies sit idle and public transport runs practically empty. The knock-on effects of working from home are horrendous - and that’s why the government needs to get office workers - and everyone else - back to work. "

I realise why the government is trying to do it, and I sympathise.
But as I posted elsewhere, all these knock-on industries are there to serve an office, commuter culture, or largely. Trying to re-engineer working practices to serve them back in return is illogical and doomed to fail. People aren't going to be returning to work unless:

they feel like it (and many do)
they have to because working from home is unsatisfactory - but that should be the decision for the employer and employee not the govenment

[JimF]

Every major change in business practice has inevitably led to job losses in peripheral industries - nobody is owed a living.

E.g. many moons ago in the early 80s I was working for a large company where only a handful of techie people had access to any sort of digital technology. But the company decided that this was the future, so gave everybody an IBM PC on their desk with WordPerfect, Lotus 1-2-3 and email software on it and sent everyone on a computer literacy course. Within the course of a few months over 100 typists in the typing pool and a couple of dozen internal mail delivery staff were made redundant, as there was simply nothing for them to do any more.

No-one would advocate returning to a pre-IT scenario - home-working is pretty similar, I reckon.

[ichkeria]

Archibaldy put it better than I did

[naomi24]

^Anything less will result in the collapse of thousands of business and the resultant job losses. How do we counter that?

[douglas9401]

What we need is a task force. They always deliver results.

[pixie374]

Agree with jth... these changes haven't been prepared and planned through yet, as it was all quite sudden. Wfh will be great for some businesses, not possible for others and everything in between. It might take some trial and error as well.
Some people were worried about huge job losses by the rise in technology and machines, but in reality, it just changes to different areas.

[jno]

naomi, people still have to eat. Pret a Manger for instance may see its future in opening in suburban high streets rather than city centres, and people sitting at home all day without breaks for commuting may find it worthwhile getting some exercise walking to a sandwich shop rather than making their own. It ought to be a case of one door opening as another door closes, and an opportunity for small local businesses.

[allenlondon]

"Without offices there is no trade for anyone else, including shops, pubs, cafes, restaurants, cleaning and maintenance companies … etc"

But that IS the point, surely. Most/many non-productive jobs are just not necessary. All they do is provide work for other non-productive jobs.

Prioritize. Important work: the production and distribution of food. The care for the sick, so doctors, nurses, and their immediate support staff (not hospital managers).

But much of the work the British now do is not important. It keeps the non-productive economy ticking over, but, like face-to-face hospital consultations, it really isn't necessary in most cases.

Step aside from your prejudices and LOOK.

A

[naomi24]

Allen, //Most/many non-productive jobs are just not necessary. All they do is provide work for other non-productive jobs…. Step aside from your prejudices and LOOK. //

I suggest you put aside your prejudices and look because whilst you’re planning this Utopian world you dream of people have to survive - and without jobs they can’t - so what do you suggest they do in the meantime?

Jno, //Pret a Manger for instance may see its future in opening in suburban high streets rather than city centres//

See above.

[Hopkirk]

My son (admittedly working abroad) is working from home in his flat.

He can't wait to get back to office based working. It's not good for his mental health to never leave home. There is a lot to be said for banter at the water cooler, or in the dining area. Sometimes you need to get up , walk around and have proper human contact.
I would hate to be a home worker (though as a lorry driver, it's never going to happen)

[woofgang]

Its very sad but the argument that change must stop in order to supply employment to support services has never worked and it won't work now.....crossing sweepers, carriage horse holders, night soil carters.....all gone. Yes its all happened quickly this time and yes the detail needs sorting but I don't think the clock will go back. Locally a new service has sprung up which is a posh afternoon tea delivered to the door. I could see if people don't live within walking distance of a sandwich shop, they might quite like to order a lunch delivered. Long before I retired from work a local sandwich business, had a touring business that used to turn up, park and ring its bell like an icecream van.

[woofgang]

WFH doesn't mean that you never leave home. I suspect that part of the change will be different expectations about what work will supply, and this will include social interraction.

[naomi24]

Hopkirk, I know a lot of people who are missing the office and struggling working from home.

[pixie374]

Exactly woof. The economy has always evolved through demand and supply and always will. It has been quicker this time, as it was forced, but businesses aren't charities and won't be paying rents for office buildings, that don't benefit them enough. You can't keep jobs going artificially for very long. If they are needed, or desirable, they will continue.

[naomi24]

True, the economy has always evolved - but not in one fell swoop. That's not evolution - it's devastation.

[pixie374]

It will take some time to rebalance, but it's swings and roundabouts. Wfh may be easier for people with other commitments, like children or elderly relatives etc. Employers may be able to afford more staff, if they have less overheads and so on... maybe less traffic on the roads, fewer accidents, there are positives and negatives.