'Racist' Milwall Fans - Your View?

[andy-hughes]

There has been controversy about the reaction to players 'taking the knee' at a weekend game, where Milwall fans were heard to boo the players involved.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fa-launch-probe-after-millwall-4774697

It appears the FA are investigating the potential for action against the club for the 'racsist actions' of its fans.

Personally, I don't believe that showing your disapproval of an act of support for a social campaign - or a political organisation, depending on your viewpoint, equates to either not supporting that campain / organisation, or to actively advising your support of an opposite point of view.

Put simply, I don't believe that booing 'taking the knee' makes anyone a racist.

It's an assumption that has no basis in reason, and to me, it shows people being far too keen to look at a negative attitude to one behaviour, and ascribe it possessing a negative attitude to another, with no viable connection.

I am not a football fan, and I wouldn't ever boo anyone, or any action in public, but I do strongly dislike the pointless OTT woke-ism and self-righteousness of 'taking the knee' and I believe it has no place in our sports arenas, but if anyone were to accuse me of being a racist for expressing that view, we would be having serious words.

What are your views?

[Ellipsis]

> My point is, booing what is fast becoming an embarrassing show of political correctness which was mawkish when it started in the USA, and looks utterly ridiculous over here - could be motivated purely by that perception, and the assumption that it is racist is based on assumption, not evidence, or clear motive.

Only because you say so, with no evidence of your own, and not even as a keen follower of football.

Do you not agree that the FA has a right to investigate if they see fit?

[royfromaus]

Mozz71
Well Andy, I sincerely hope I've misread the situation and Roy did not mean that, as it shows the utter contempt he holds for anybody still supporting anti-racist statements.
___________
Does it?
Bizzare, wobbly thinking.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // > My point is, booing what is fast becoming an embarrassing show of political correctness which was mawkish when it started in the USA, and looks utterly ridiculous over here - could be motivated purely by that perception, and the assumption that it is racist is based on assumption, not evidence, or clear motive.

Only because you say so, with no evidence of your own, and not even as a keen follower of football. //

But that is entire crux of my argument, there is no evidence, so how can an effective investigation be completed?

// Do you not agree that the FA has a right to investigate if they see fit? //

I refer you to the sentence above this one.

[Ellipsis]

You are pre-judging the investigation from a position of complete ignorance.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // Mozz71
Well Andy, I sincerely hope I've misread the situation and Roy did not mean that, as it shows the utter contempt he holds for anybody still supporting anti-racist statements.
___________
Does it?
Bizzare, wobbly thinking. //

Maybe that's what you get for being oblique to the level of saying nothing clear at all - ?

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // You are pre-judging the investigation from a position of complete ignorance //

I am not prejudging the outcome of the investigation - I am pointing out that it has not basis in evidence to start with.

[royfromaus]

It's actually a nod to this ( I have an excellent memory)

//People are dead. I for one am pleased they didn’t die in a terrorist attack. But sadly, many on this thread are disappointed it was a drunk driver. Shame on you.//

Which oddly but unsurprisingly went unchallenged.

[Ellipsis]

> I am not prejudging the outcome of the investigation - I am pointing out that it has not basis in evidence to start with.

And again, you're completely ignorant about that.

[Zacs-Master]

By you as well, Roy?

[Spicerack]

People are sick of having the 'correct' view constantly pushed at them in every facet of their lives.
Keep politics out of sport.
It was the FA that jumped onto this fatuous bandwagon.
Doubt they'll find themselves at fault in their own enquiry.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - //
Mark as Best Answer
> I am not prejudging the outcome of the investigation - I am pointing out that it has not basis in evidence to start with.

And again, you're completely ignorant about that. //

I stand by my view that you cannot look at a crowd of people booing and supply any evidence that you know why they are booing, only that you think you know why, and that is not evidence.

If you, or anyone else, can suggest anything approaching evidence - which is what the FA need to form an investigation - I'd be delighted to read it.

[Ellipsis]

> People are sick of having the 'correct' view constantly pushed at them in every facet of their lives.

You'd say that if it was monkey chants rather than boos then, Spicerack.

[andy-hughes]

roy - // It's actually a nod to this ( I have an excellent memory)

//People are dead. I for one am pleased they didn’t die in a terrorist attack. But sadly, many on this thread are disappointed it was a drunk driver. Shame on you.//

Which oddly but unsurprisingly went unchallenged. //

Clearly your 'excellent memory' and your apparent desire to show it off, have led you to an oblique reference to something no-one else remembers, which has nothing to do with this debate.

Shall we leave that there?

I think that would be best.

[Ellipsis]

> If you, or anyone else, can suggest anything approaching evidence - which is what the FA need to form an investigation - I'd be delighted to read it.

No, evidence is what they need to take action. They need an investigation to collect evidence, if any.

It's a bit like a police investigation, Andy: event, then investigation, then prosecution if there's evidence, then judgement based on the evidence presented.

[Theland]

I've just put military band music on the tv YouTube amdmI feel mucj better

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // > People are sick of having the 'correct' view constantly pushed at them in every facet of their lives.

You'd say that if it was monkey chants rather than boos then, Spicerack. //

Once again you are using a faulty analogy.

No-one would doubt for one minute the motivation behind monkey chants from a football crowd - even I as a non-fan know that.

But booing can be caused by any reaction at all - and the FA assuming that they can devine what that reaction is, and then 'investigate it' is fatuous knee-jerk nonsense from an organisation that seems constantly intent on underlining the fact that the people who run it are not very bright.

[Spicerack]

You missed the 'SO' off the front of your codswallop, ellipsis.

[andy-hughes]

Ellipsis - // No, evidence is what they need to take action. They need an investigation to collect evidence, if any.

It's a bit like a police investigation, Andy: event, then investigation, then prosecution if there's evidence, then judgement based on the evidence presented. //

No it's not!

Under your systrem, an individual could be arrested for violent crime on the basis that he 'looked at this bloke in a funny way'.

The police don't work on guessing what people are thinking - it seems the FA have that nonsense cornered.'

[Theland]

Tjinkingmks the new crime.

[Ellipsis]

> Once again you are using a faulty analogy.

No, I'm responding to Spicerack writing "People are sick of having the 'correct' view constantly pushed at them in every facet of their lives."

i.e. they don't want to be told not to boo, they want to be allowed to boo if they want to - no matter what the booing represents.