Trump Impeached ?

[Rosie29]

Sorry no link - I'm wondering if I heard right. Radio 5 live just said Trump is to be impeached. Will this make a martyr of him with his supporters ?

[jim360]

Probably, but then again he already was, so...

[Mozz71]

It seems the Dempcrats are.considering it, as Mike Pence has said he won't evoke the 25 amendment.

[Mozz71]

It seems the Democrats are considering it, as Mike Pence has said he won't evoke the 25th amendment.

Seeing as my first attempt at typing was terrible, I thought I'd repeat myself in English.

[jim360]

It may be that Pence considered it, but he can't unilaterally, for obvious reasons. Not enough of the Cabinet is on board regardless of what Pence was thinking.

So, Impeachment it is. I don't think it will pass the Senate with 2/3 majority, but it wouldn't surprise me to see at least a few Republican Senators voting to convict (more than last time, when it was only Romney).

[Sunk]

No he hadn’t.

// Removing Trump by constitutional means is a tall order for the 12 days remaining in his presidency, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has not made a formal determination to move forward with a second impeachment, even as she consulted Friday with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff about curbing Trump’s ability to launch nuclear weapons. //

[Jackdaw33]

I fail to see the point. He will be gone in 12 days. All they have to do is keep his finger off the red button in the meantime.

[Mozz71]

I don't know so much Sunk. So many in congress are disgusted by what happened, I reckon they might get enough to remove him.

[jim360]

The point, JD, would be to ensure that he is barred from ever holding office again -- and to send a message that, you know, a President inciting a riot against the legislature is not OK.

[Mozz71]

Sorry, that was at Jim, not Sunk.

[jim360]

I reckon many who might have voted to convict, or at least considered it, will reach the same "what's the point, he's gone in seven days?" conclusion. They are wrong, because Trump was going anyway. There need to be extra consequences for what he did or tried to do.

[Ellipsis]

Impeachment can apply even to past Presidents. The fact that he is due to leave office soon is immaterial.

[Mozz71]

I understand that although it may be little more that a token gesture, the thinking is that it will be a show of strength and unity, not to mention a way of showing that a president cannot get away with these actions.

[Jackdaw33]

Impeachment merely disbars him from current and future office. It does not convict him of any crimes. As the chances of Trump ever regaining any office in the future are 0% I still don't see the point. Once he is out of office then due legal process can begin.

[jim360]

Unfortunately, the chances are not 0%. 74 million people voted for him, and I reckon easily around 70 million of them would do so again. Maybe that won't be enough because in practice the mere prospect of Trump running again would be enough to terrify more people into voting against him; but as we saw in 2016 and 2020, the fear of the "radical left" is often strong enough to give a wholly unsuitable candidate a chance they don't deserve.

[Sunk]

If Trump is impeached and loses the Presidency, his successor (Pence presumably) can pardon him.
Better to see out the next 11 days and then prosecute Trump, and barring him from office.

[Jackdaw33]

This puts me in mind of the old Acts of Attainder, a useful device whereby monarchs could dispose of their enemies without recourse to judicial procedure. There has only ever been one successful impeachment in Britain and that was in the 18th century.

[Ellipsis]

I found this interview on Channel 4 News last night very instructive:

https://www.channel4.com/news/us-political-divide-vastly-greater-than-that-of-any-advanced-democracy-political-scientist-ian-bremmer

[jim360]

Well, the good news is that he's now been banned from Twitter, so that's all right then.

[Ellipsis]

By the way, only three days earlier that same former acting Solicitor General was being interviewed about Trump's phone call to the Georgia governor, trying to find 11780 votes. Remember that phone call? It took place less than a week ago, a long time in politics. Here's the interview ...

https://www.channel4.com/news/if-crimes-were-committed-here-mr-trump-will-be-brought-to-justice-former-us-acting-solicitor-general

[brainiac]

As I've just posted on another thread: his Twitter account has just been permanently deleted.