Homophobic Bigot Loses Case.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-56089759
...bet she wished she'd kept her trap shut.

[jim360]

Unfortunately, jno, for the time being at least, the full judgement seems to be unavailable. Maybe some issues will be clarified in that, I'll try to link it once it does appear online in full, if you are still interested.

[ToraToraTora]

pixie: "You cannot force someone to believe something they don't, against their will. " - I agree but you can pray on the weak minded and plant ideas that condition their thoughts.

[pixie374]

I've already acknowledged insanity, which is why I said legally sane adults. Again, I know it is within the law- but not justifiably, as it implies that one adult can make another do something they don't want to. Which is not possible. Maybe laws aren't always entirely up to date?

[pixie374]

Good luck, ttt. You'll be the first x

[jackthehat]

If a vulnerable person (A) is persuaded/incited to carry out an illegal act because they believe harm will come to them/someone they love, the person doing the inciting/persuading (B) stands as guilty of committing the act as (A).

[Zacs-Master]

Are you saying the law is wrong?

[pixie374]

Zacs, cults even, cannot brainwash someone against their will. They have to be susceptible and willing. But, whatever it may look like, its still their choice.

[pixie374]

Probably zacs.... there are many laws that are probably outdated, or disagreeable.

[jim360]

// You cannot force someone to do something against their will. //

Depends on how literally you take the word "force", I suppose. In essence, someone inciting such-and-such a crime is lying to the actual perpetrator, for example by inventing a false justification, or by some sort of attempt to muddy the waters of morality. It is clear, and not in dispute, that the act of committing the crime itself is a criminal offence, and in that sense you cannot hide behind "incitement" as a defence. But that is simply not the argument being made here. Trying to get somebody to commit a crime on your behalf deserves to be treated as a criminal offence.

[pixie374]

I'm going with biology and psychology though. No idea why the law does what it does.

[Jackdaw33]

Diminished responsibility is only available as a partial defence in cases of murder, where it has the effect of reducing the crime to one of manslaughter. It was introduced in 1957 when capital punishment was still in force so its significance today is rather less.

[Zacs-Master]

Well, I can certainly say your views are...erm...challenging, Pix.

[pixie374]

I really don't see why, zacs. Legally sane adults are responsible for their own actions.
Words from one person, can't cause violence from another.
It's hardly complicated.

[naomi24]

Yes they can.

[Zacs-Master]

Probably because I find it hard to believe that a lone person on Answerbank knows better than those who legislate the law of the land. I also fundamentally disagree that one person cannot bend the will of another to their way. There are hundreds of example where people have done that. David Koresh (Waco) is one.

[pixie374]

Zacs, tbh, I have never had 100% faith in the law, or sentencing. I think it leaves a lot to be desired.
The point is, you literally can't make someone else behave in a way they don't want to. It's choice.
Again, this isn't about people with mental health issues, vulnerable, blackmail, putting a gun to your head... a different subject. But about how much influence you have on someone against their will.

[pixie374]

I've briefly just googled David Koresh. He commited a lot of crimes- which he is fully responsible for.

[andy-hughes]

pixie - // The point is, you literally can't make someone else behave in a way they don't want to. It's choice. //

I see where you are coming from, but I think your argument is over-simplified.

It is perfectly possible to make someone behave in a way they don't want to.

Hold the bank manager's wife and children hostage and invite him to open the safe - he won't behave in a way he wants to, but he will do it nonetheless.

[pixie374]

Yes, obviously, Andy. That's why I took out the threatening situations. We are referring to words on a post, supposedly making others violent.

[TrevorThePug]

Coercion, manipulation, exploitation - these are all useful and effective methods for literally making someone else behave in a way you want / they don't want to by controlling, adapting or removing their choices. This could include violent behaviour.