Uk Democracy Under Threat

[Hymie]

I only became aware of this today, that the government has voter ID plans whereby in order to vote at polling stations, voters will be required to show official photo ID (such as a passport, driver’s licence etc).

Many people do not hold such ID and will therefore be disenfranchised as a result of this legislation which is likely to impact the poorer sections of our society. Quite why the Labour Party is not up in arms against such plans I don’t know.

You can read more here:-
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/defending-our-democracy-say-no-to-voter-id/?utm_source=CrowdJustice&;utm_campaign=9b33037f9d-VOTIDMAR2021&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7304756a43-9b33037f9d-169393273

[Hymie]

Togo – in your post timed at 21:44, you stated that the ID requirements were in the Tory manifesto and they (the Tories) were elected based on promising to do this – therefore it is democratic.

If the Tory manifesto stated that voting for anyone other than the Tories would be made illegal in their manifesto and they were elected based on this – you would claim it was democratic.

My view is that such a law would be undemocratic.

[Peter Pedant]

// GET ID OR DON'T VOTE!//
then hey dont vote durrr!
and the point is made that they are disenfranchised ( even more durr)

and its not a police station it is a voting booth ( dur dur dur)

[Peter Pedant]

togo 21 44 - easily enough time ago for him to say the opposite and no one notice

[Peter Pedant]

yeah Hyme
if the people vote that half the people shall not vote then it is still democratic
is internally inconsistent. I think we have got there.

Did happen in 1979 tho
Iran the leddies voted to disenfranchise themselves on the grounds a good wife weel vote as er husband says !

we wdnt call Iran democratic - - - er would we - - even on AB ?

[Prudie]

What a ridiculous fuss over a minority who could do something about it if they wanted if such a plan came in. On average between 30% and 50% UK voters choose not to bother anyway. All have a choice - that's democracy.

[ichkeria]

So voter ID is not IMO “undemocratic”.
But encouraging people to register in the first place might be a more worthy pursuit.

[ToraToraTora]

hymie: "If the Tory manifesto stated that voting for anyone other than the Tories would be made illegal in their manifesto and they were elected based on this – you would claim it was democratic.

My view is that such a law would be undemocratic. " - the way it was arrived at would be democratic, the result would remove democracy. If the people choose to remove democracy, then that itself would be democratic.

[Togo]

//If the Tory manifesto stated that voting for anyone other than the Tories would be made illegal in their manifesto//

Not to worry ... I have got my eye on that for you. If it happens I will give you the nod. Meanwhile, a practical tip. When measuring a piece of string, lay it in a straight line. A circle is a bit to complicated for you.

[Togo]

It is a bit early for the hallucinogenics even for you Pee Pee surely. Time for a bit of brekkie. Full English.

[Hymie]

Togo – be sure to let me know if the Tories propose to restrict voting to only those that have the required photo ID.

[ichkeria]

Hymie,

Would you feel happier if there were a registration campaign along the lines I mentioned earlier, to accompany the voter ID thing, if we must have that (and no I know there is no prospect it seems of one)?

[ichkeria]

I would think how it works is: you register and then the ID is only for actually voting.
As I mentioned at the start voter ID is already used in part of the UK and you have to give your name when you vote anyway.

[Zacs-Master]

I see the goalposts have been seriously moved!

[webbo3]

citizen card. £15
https://www.citizencard.com/

[webbo3]

Court of appeal dismissed it in 2020
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/43978-court-of-appeal-dismisses-legal-challenge-over-voter-id

[THECORBYLOON]

The Supreme Court will be considering it now.

[Peter Pedant]

o god I love AB - it is so crazy it makes me feel normal
and THAT is not easy

//All have a choice - that's democracy.// to vote or not
Nope! - er where to start

first one is a choice and the second (no votey if no ID) is not
AND
aus is a democracy and makes everyone vote - oudda country you have to go to the embassy/high commission. o god

People dont think enough before they write, that is their fault. My fault is I think too much ( thx to Oscar)

[Peter Pedant]

// I would think how it works is: you register and then the ID is only for actually voting.//
they do that already for chrissakes - it is called the electoral register

this is a barrier on the day, of which the ONLY outcome is- fewer voters.

[New Judge]

//NJ read you short version. There are monitors now to control 1 ballot per person in a booth//

That was not an issue identified in the Lutfur Rahman ruling.

//mainstream - "they have a vote but they dont have a vote"//

Not quite Peter. They have a vote (for their MEP) but it does not “enfranchise” them in any meaningful way. But not only is that off topic, it’s now, thankfully, irrelevant to people in the UK.

//Based on the info in the link, 7.5% of the population would be disenfranchised//

You might as well say that those who fail to ensure they are included on the electoral roll are “disenfranchised.” Taking part in the activities of a society involves accepting responsibilities and places requirements of various sorts on its members. To see a doctor you must be registered with a GP; to travel abroad you must obtain a passport and produce it when asked; to drive you must obtain a licence and produce it when asked. To vote you must firstly ensure you are on the roll and henceforth you will be asked to identify yourself at the polling station. There’s nothing at all unreasonable in that. I’ve never quite understood how simply pitching up at the polling station and giving your name and address should be sufficient for you to be given a ballot paper. Supposing somebody impersonated Hymie without his knowledge and cast a vote before he got to the polling station. Hymie then pitches up:

Hymie: “I’m Mr Hymie of 41 Acacia Avenue.”

Polling Station Bod: “Sorry Mr Hymie, you’ve already voted.”


Hymie: “No I have not.”

Polling Station Bod: “My records show that you have. Sorry.” “Next!” [if he's lucky] or “Call the Police” [if he's not].

Voters will only be disenfranchised if they fail to comply with the conditions of the voting procedure. When I last voted my area was one of the “pilots” to require voter ID. It caused me no difficulties whatsoever.

//…this is a barrier on the day, of which the ONLY outcome is- fewer voters.//

Sorry, Peter, but I cannot imagine anybody who really wants to vote being put off by this requirement. If they are, bad luck. Things change and we have to change with them.

[Hymie]

NJ – How did you find out where I live (or was it just a lucky guess)?