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Detransition can occur prior to an operation, so clarifying "pre-op" doesn't change the point. What's your source? I repeat that I've only found your 80%-95% figure in association with children, and then only in one study (cited in, for example, https:/
Compare, for example, the 2015 US Transgender Survey: https:/
Which makes clear that, of its respondents, only one quarter had had surgery, and only 8% of the total had detransitioned (and about two-thirds of those had only detransitioned temporarily). It follows that the 80% figure is incompatible with this survey. I'd suggest that you at least provide your source for your claim.
See, eg, page 18 for the total number of respondents; p 93 for the data about surgery; p108 for the data about detransitioning rates, etc.
Compare, for example, the 2015 US Transgender Survey: https:/
Which makes clear that, of its respondents, only one quarter had had surgery, and only 8% of the total had detransitioned (and about two-thirds of those had only detransitioned temporarily). It follows that the 80% figure is incompatible with this survey. I'd suggest that you at least provide your source for your claim.
See, eg, page 18 for the total number of respondents; p 93 for the data about surgery; p108 for the data about detransitioning rates, etc.
Jim, I was really hoping that as a scientist and from previous posts, you would be more up to date. You know as well as I do, that Google is the ultimate in biased, pro-trans, antiwomen articles and it could take days to find it there. So, ignore that if you prefer.
In any case, I would still like to know, how the potential violence of other men, has now become "our" issue.
Educate each other, fight for your own rights (not you personally). And women would no doubt, be your biggest supporters. But don't imitate and invade ours and complain about not being welcomed with open arms.
Surely you realise that in some places, women are allowed to exclude men and vv. for certain reasons.
So, how can you say that having to allow men in, doesn't erode women's rights and safety? Sports, changing rooms...
In any case, I would still like to know, how the potential violence of other men, has now become "our" issue.
Educate each other, fight for your own rights (not you personally). And women would no doubt, be your biggest supporters. But don't imitate and invade ours and complain about not being welcomed with open arms.
Surely you realise that in some places, women are allowed to exclude men and vv. for certain reasons.
So, how can you say that having to allow men in, doesn't erode women's rights and safety? Sports, changing rooms...
Children are always unsure. In fact, the most I've seen is parents claiming their son enjoys dresses, dolls, playing with other girls... or daughters liking getting muddy and playing with trainsets... and instead of telling them "that's fine, whatever"- they agree they are the wrong sex.
Thankfully, their stats are completely separate and not included anyway.
But, how are you suggesting that transpeople can move forwards, without taking away rights from others?
And, why should anyone have to go through all that, to feel "accepted"?
Thankfully, their stats are completely separate and not included anyway.
But, how are you suggesting that transpeople can move forwards, without taking away rights from others?
And, why should anyone have to go through all that, to feel "accepted"?
Still no source, then? Until you provide it, the "I'd have thought you'd be more up-to-date" barb rings pretty hollow, frankly. Most evidence I've seen points to the fact that among children, "detransition" is relatively common because, of course, it's very often about exploration at that point, whereas among adults it's relatively rare, and then very often because of external pressures rather than an innate realisation that they were not trans after all. I don't think it should be too much of a surprise in the current world that external pressures against transition are still huge.
To your question: it's about cross-purposes again. The question is to what extent biology is relevant in defining social boundaries. I certainly don't think the answer is "it's never relevant", but it seems unlikely that we'll ever reconcile our positions on how relevant it should be. There are certain battlegrounds I'd probably concede on, eg in physical sports it feels clearly unreasonable to expect self-identification, ie no hormone therapy or surgery, to be enough to compete as your identified gender.
To your question: it's about cross-purposes again. The question is to what extent biology is relevant in defining social boundaries. I certainly don't think the answer is "it's never relevant", but it seems unlikely that we'll ever reconcile our positions on how relevant it should be. There are certain battlegrounds I'd probably concede on, eg in physical sports it feels clearly unreasonable to expect self-identification, ie no hormone therapy or surgery, to be enough to compete as your identified gender.
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