Javid Contracts Foot In Mouth

[Gromit]

130,000 have died, 1 million active cases, thousands in hospital.
Javid is fortunate to get a mild dose so he is telling people not to cower over covid.
Even if he doesn’t give a toss about people who have lost a loved one, it is a stupid and insensitive thing to say.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/25/sajid-javids-advice-to-not-cower-from-covid-provokes-angry-backlash

[pixie374]

I agree with prudie, totally. She seems to get missed sometimes for being rational and succinct :-)

[Peter Pedant]

//you have missed the expert stats juggler// usual suspect

more like: when I see a stat I dont like, I say it is juggled

There were 9,752 deaths in England and Wales registered in the week ending 9 July 2021 (Week 27); this was 944 more deaths than the previous week (Week 26) and 6.2% above the five-year average (569 more deaths). UK gov

is it 86 deaths or 28? - piffle anyway

9866 died from something else

Javid is fortunate to get a mild dose so he is telling people not to cower over covid. - he is double jabbed and I am surprised he got it at all .... 8 in a thousand I think

[naomi24]

You’ve missed it too, PP, but no surprise there.

Lots of love from the usual suspect.

[pixie374]

I didn't miss it, naomi... I agree.

[Ellipsis]

> Let's have a look at what he said:
> “Please, if you haven’t yet, get your jab, as we learn to live with, rather than cower from, this virus.”

Yes, that is what he said. So he's saying that there are two types of people in this world, those who live with it, and those who cower from it. The usual black-and-white divisive political dog-whistling populist claptrap.

[New Judge]

//So he's saying that there are two types of people in this world, those who live with it, and those who cower from it.//

How many other types are there, and what are they?

[jourdain2]

I can't think of any others, N.J.. It really is as simple as that.

We've had a really great choir practice today, all 6 of us (every voice is needed) and went to the pub for a drink afterwards. It felt almost normal - except that the vicar of our benefice of 5 churches does not want any singing to take place in them and has vetoed our singing on Sunday - or any congregational singing- even though it is now perfectly legal and I would defy him to find anyone in any of the congregations who is not fully vaccinated. He is a 'cowerer' (nice word, I like that).

Result: We've had a quick meeting today and decided to offer our services around as travelling singers. Already we have 2 positive results from neighbouring benefices and a potential wedding next year. These are practical, common-sense type people. I can forsee that at this rate our home church will have to book us reasonably well in advance.
Cowerers will get a coward's just desserts. Javid should not have withdrawn his remark.

[andy-hughes]

I think Mr Javid fell foul of the inevitable trap of social media, especially Twitface - typing without really thinking, and then having his badly-worded 'tweet' (Lord how I loathe that stupid expression!!) enshrined until everyone who wants to beat him over it has had a go, or he had the chance to delete it, whichever came first.

He misspoke, he apologised.

Time to move on ...

[naomi24]

I didn't think his tweet was badly worded. Anyone intelligent enough to understand plain English would have understood it. Perhaps, in order to avoid instant mass hysteria in the future he should aim to address his deliberations to the lowest common denominator.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // Perhaps, in order to avoid instant mass hysteria in the future he should aim to address his deliberations to the lowest common denominator. //

That should be Rule One for anyone who indulges in the pointless self-interested waste of time that is Twitface.

[naomi24]

AH, wherever it was written it was clear enough - unless the reader chose to misinterpret it - which I strongly suspect is the case here.

[Peter Pedant]

// in order to avoid instant mass hysteria in the future he should aim to address his deliberations to the lowest common denominator.//

oh like the average Aber - i have said that for some time - but you missed (all of them) - the one I particularly liked was:
if you think an eight year old can understand it, then you are aiming to high ....

[Peter Pedant]

// AH, wherever it was written it was clear enough//
oh you mean it was clear and unclear at the same time ?
this HAS to be answerbank - everything operating normally

[naomi24]

You're certainly operating normally.

[Ellipsis]

> How many other types are there, and what are they?

Loads. You want an example?

You are 88. Your 85 year-old-wife has just died "with" Covid, delta variant, and she was double vaccinated months ago. You have many friends of a similar age, and many family from toddler grandchildren all the way up to your wife's 92-year-old brother. In all, about 100 people.

Who do you invite to the funeral? Do you have a wake? If so, who do you invite to that? Will you be offended if people choose not to come?

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, I think you have the wrong end of the stick regarding NJ’s question. There are two types of people relevant to this thread - those who ‘cower’ and those who don’t.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // AH, wherever it was written it was clear enough - unless the reader chose to misinterpret it - which I strongly suspect is the case here. //

I entirely agree - but that does not negate my point - that if you are going to indluge in permanently putting your thoughts out in the world on Twitface - and I would guess that politicians are more or less obliged so to do - then you will always run the risk of either phrasing your thoughts carelessly.

Or, as in this case, stating your point as you believe it to be clearly, and still having it wilfully misunderstood by complete strangers waiting to leap on their keyboards and vye with each other for how outraged they can be.

[New Judge]

//... if you are going to indluge in permanently putting your thoughts out in the world on Twitface - and I would guess that politicians are more or less obliged so to do...//

Why are they obliged to do so, Andy? That's the big problem with all these retractions that have to be made. Politicians feel the need to engage on social media when they have absolutely no need to do so (well not in the unconsidered way that many of them do). It's unnecessary. They have formal channels through which to publish their thoughts and they can use those channels in a considered way (i.e. engage brain before hitting "Send").

//Loads. You want an example?//

I've absolutely no idea what you're prattling on about. Mr Javid suggested that there are now two ways of approaching Covid: you can either accept that it's here and live with that fact or you can continue to hide yourself away from it (effectively forever because it will always be among us to a greater or lesser degree). He's quite right, there's not really much in between. What people do after they've decided which of the two approaches to take will vary, but taking one stance or the other is a given. Quite how deciding who to invite to a funeral demonstrates that is false is unclear. I'd invite who I thought wanted to come. Whether they did and why they didn't is of no concern to me. But each of them will no doubt have adopted one or other of the two stances I mentioned above.

[Ellipsis]

> I've absolutely no idea what you're prattling on about. Mr Javid suggested that there are now two ways of approaching Covid

And that's what he got wrong, and why he withdrew his comment. Because it isn't just black and white, there are many shades of grey according to the real life situations in which people find themselves.

[New Judge]

//...there are many shades of grey according to the real life situations in which people find themselves.//

Then explain one or two to me then, because the example you gave does nothing of the sort.

Here's my take:

I accept that it must be lived with. I am now leading a near enough normal life and have done so (as far as I was permitted) since I had my second jab. My neighbour is of similar mind, though she's a little more circumspect in where she goes. But she accepts that life with restrictions cannot go on. By contrast my sister-in-law has become a recluse. She goes out once a week on an essential shopping trip, during which she wears latex gloves. She "quarantines" her shopping for three days after purchase. She will not go out anywhere else. She will allow nobody into her house. When I asked her when her behaviour would change she said "probably never". She does not accept it must be lived with, only that it must be avoided at all costs.

Yes, there are grades of severity in each approach. But people now need to decide which approach they are going to take. All Mr Javid did was to suggest that people should learn to live with it if, for no other reason, it's here to stay. He did not insult bereaved families, he was commenting on he future, not the past. He had no need to delete his Tweet (in fact he had no need to post it in the first place, but that's another discussion).