Latin To Be Introduced At 40 State Secondaries In England

[naomi24]

//£4m scheme will form part of government effort to counter subject’s reputation as elitist//

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jul/31/latin-introduced-40-state-secondaries-england

A difficult one. I tend to think that teaching modern languages is more beneficial to the majority - but I would welcome teaching Latin selectively - which makes it elitist. No?

[pixie374]

I think it's a good idea for at least a basis. It's useful for many other languages, as a basis, medicine, law, plants etc. Mostly because it is logical and the easiest to learn.
I did it to A level, but unfortunately (by law), you still had to learn a modern language up to GCSE anyway. So it was an 'option, not instead of modern languages.

[Sqad]

I agree naomi.

[andy-hughes]

Latin is elitist - and reviving it in only a selective number of schools is not going to do anything to alter that perception.

It's Boris and co re-living their own elitist schooldays, assuming that Latin is a benefit to oiks, which it is, but in modern society, there are far more beneficial subjects to be taught in the slot that Latin would occupy.

[jim360]

Oxbridge still is "elitist" in terms of having high standards. Nothing changed in that sense by dropping the Latin requirement for subjects that have nothing to do with it. Instead it expanded the understanding of elitism, by ensuring that everybody who has the ability in their chosen subject has access, and isn't hamstrung by the limitations of their school.

[Sqad]

A-H......well said........and concise -;)

[Sqad]

Sorry Jim, you have lost me there, which is a reflection on my intellect rather than yours.

[naomi24]

I don’t consider myself to be an ‘oik’. The use of the word reflects an attitude of inverted snobbery.

As an aside, this conversation makes a pleasant change from Covid, face masks, Boris .... you know the rest. :o)

[THECORBYLOON]

"Latin is elitist - and reviving it in only a selective number of schools is not going to do anything to alter that perception."

The forty schools are those in an initial roll-out so there will be more to come.

[jim360]

If you mean my last post, then if entry to Oxbridge were still tied to learning a subject that most schools don't teach, then clearly several very gifted people who could thrive there wouldn't be allowed to go. But requiring Latin (or any other subject) is extremely arbitrary given that most subjects care not a jot about it. On the other hand, removing that requirement doesn't change standards elsewhere, and Oxford and Cambridge remain among the top universities in the world. Perhaps even stronger than ever they were. Being too elitist is often a weakness -- same as when both places kept women out, or allowed them in but refused degrees. The effect was to cut themselves off from approximately half the available talent.

[teacake44]

Has or as? I think I will give it a miss :0))) On a serious note back in the sixties they insisted that I learn French, and I am in no doubt that was a big mistake for some/ me that hadn't even grasped English. And even today its let slip for many, why? scores on doors I believe.

[Sqad]

Got yer jim and I would not take away your premises that the Oxbridge Universities are "special " I would agree with that.

However many famous and successful graduates have made a name for themselves in the world without the advantages of a Oxbridge education and all that went with it.

But I agree, an Oxbridge education is something special ..........even if it means learning Latin -;)

[Gromit]

Teaching Computer Languages would be far more beneficial to young students.

[jim360]

// However many famous and successful graduates have made a name for themselves in the world without the advantages of a Oxbridge education and all that went with it. //

Absolutely.

[davebro]

I found Latin & History to be the most boring (and subsequently useless) subjects at school. I managed to scrape O-level passes in both but would have been better served by extra Science & Maths lessons.

[pixie374]

History was exceptionally boring. I also would have given up French. By that age, people should know really, what they are or aren't going to find useful or interesting.

[bednobs]

Hi naomi, perhaps you are a different age to me and that's why your experience was different? In any case there were 1500 pupils in my comp and I believe it's now expanded to double that. Where will they find the teachers?

[bednobs]

School subjects don't have to be useful and interesting though pixie

[naomi24]

Mine was a Grammar school, bednobs. There are still some around.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // I don’t consider myself to be an ‘oik’. The use of the word reflects an attitude of inverted snobbery. //

Only in your mind - the only place where everything is as you say it is.

I used the word tongue-in-cheek - there is more than one way to use language.

[naomi24]

//By that age, people should know really, what they are or aren't going to find useful or interesting. //

I'm not sure that's true. My thoughts at 16 didn't match my thoughts at 30.