Latin To Be Introduced At 40 State Secondaries In England

[naomi24]

//£4m scheme will form part of government effort to counter subject’s reputation as elitist//

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/jul/31/latin-introduced-40-state-secondaries-england

A difficult one. I tend to think that teaching modern languages is more beneficial to the majority - but I would welcome teaching Latin selectively - which makes it elitist. No?

[Jackdaw33]

A tricky one. Having done Latin to A level myself I'm all in favour. However it is not for everyone and is quite difficult, so to that extent it is elitist.

[Sqad]

Latin is elitist, has always been elitist and should remain so.
Bringing Latin to the masses is a gimick.
Modern languages are fine in our modern world but the teaching of Latin plays little practical part in teaching today.

[naomi24]

I did Latin too, Jackdaw, but I can't help thinking it must be taught selectively, which means it can't be separated from elitism. I have to say I find it difficult to find fault with elitism in such circumstances.

[THECORBYLOON]

Why do you think the teaching of Latin must be selective?

[Sqad]

Go to any Contintal country and observe the pathetic attemps to speak the local language by the Brits......even in English.

[SparklyKid]

I did Latin at school. We wrote on the blackboard

"Latin is a language as dead as dead can be, it killed the ancient Romans and now it's killing me "

[jim360]

Does this really address the elitism of Latin? It doesn't seem to me relevant to most people. Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis, which seems to me to imply that we should be reducing the emphasis on Latin rather than reverting to it.

I should say all the same that I kind of wish I knew more Latin. Lately I've been very interested in learning more about the history of Rome in the 1st Century BC, which would presumably be even more fun if I could read the original Latin histories. Still, with so many other things to focus on, and with modern languages being more relevant in general, I'm not sure what to think of this.

[naomi24]

Corby, I see no benefit in teaching Latin to people who either aren’t interested, or aren’t academically gifted enough to absorb it, or won’t need it in their chosen careers. For those students I feel modern languages taught to a higher standard would make better use of the extra funding.

[gulliver1]

How about teaching "Me old China " how to speak the English Language instead.

[dave50]

Why if something is difficult to learn does it make it elitist?

[Sqad]

Jim

///%/Lately I've been very interested in learning more about the history of Rome in the 1st Century BC, ////

Although admirable in your situation, I cannot see secondary schoolboys being remotely interested in that particular era.

I may well be wrong.

I look forward to posts by PP on this subject-;)

[bednobs]

even if they bring it back to secondaries, it will be a choice as to whether to study it or not i presume.
In my secondary school, taking ANY languages further than the first year depended on your aptitude, your other options for GCSE and how many people wanted to do it. Therefore only 30 people out of the year got to do latin.
I cant imagine it's changed (if it's compulsory, where are they going to find all the latin teachers from?)

[jim360]

// I cannot see secondary schoolboys being remotely interested in [the fall of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Empire].

I may well be wrong. //

I'm not sure how general the interest would be, but it's guaranteed to have zero engagement if it isn't taught! I think most history in UK schools is focused, for obvious reasons, on British history -- eg, Roman history when I was taught it at Primary school began in 55BC, and then skipped a century.

But anyway. The history can be taught separately from the language, even if they are related, so it's not really relevant to the question of Latin being taught at State Schools.

[Sqad]

LOL.....when an AB wants to appear clever (elitist) he/ she seizes the chance to appear.....special and out comes a latin quote.

Carpe diem.

[naomi24]

Bednobs, at my school languages, including Latin, formed part of the standard curriculum for the first five years.

[Sqad]

Yes Jim, I agree, but you introduced the concept.

////which would presumably be even more fun if I could read the original Latin histories.////

[Jackdaw33]

Until the 1960s Latin O level was an essential requirement for entry to Oxford or Cambridge. No Latin and you didn't get in, no matter how brilliant you were in your chosen subject.

[jim360]

I did. But I wouldn't want to derail the thread by exploring it too much.

On the subject of elitism, I don't think Latin or any other subject is inherently elitist -- that only comes if/when you look down on those who haven't been taught it, or deliberately trade jokes/quotes in Latin without translating for the benefit of those who don't speak it.

[Sqad]

Jack.......exactly...and that made Latin and the Oxbridge Universities........elitist.

[naomi24]

As they should have stayed ...in my opinion.