This Is A Hard One To Take

[royfromaus]

I usually keep out of the trans discussions but this had me face-palming.


https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-woman-accused-using-sex-22260053

She is charged with committing a public nuisance by indecently exposing her penis to other members of the public, whilst masturbating from a property window.

[pixie374]

Sorry, Shirley, 15:49, I meant in general, not this particular one. But neither do I believe that this particular one is an aberration.
NOT that all transgender people are. But that men remain men, women remain women, no matter what. I don't even see that brain surgery would make a difference.

[Stickybottle]

[pixie374]

//APG seems to have a personal experience on
Pretty much every subject.//

So what, don't most people?

[burlyshirley]

Ok pixie, but I do believe this one is an abberation. I think there will also be many similar out there ...

[pixie374]

Without a doubt... we already know that.
I don't blame AB, it's kind of notoriously about 20 years behind real life, and I kind of like that. But in this case, most of the country is at least 15 years behind, because nothing was allowed to be published. This is on the up...

[Mozz71]

Sorry, been out so was unable to comment on responses to my previous posts. If, as has been said, s/he has a history of violent crime against women, then there is no doubt in my mind that they should go to a male prison. The only other solution is to keep them in constant solitary confinement in a woman's prison. Sounds like this individual is a scumbag, regardless of gender.

[mushroom25]

In 2017, The Sunday Times reported nearly half of inmates in UK prisons who identified as ‘transgender women’ had been convicted of sexual offences. Recognising sex-based patterns of offending is kinda important for policy and for the protection of the public; but the recording of crimes committed by men as if they were women tends to distort the figures.

around 30 police forces currently pay Stonewall for membership of its Diversity Champions Scheme. Stonewall has consistently campaigned for ‘gender identity’ to replace ‘sex’ in legislation, so it's hardly surprising offences committed by self-identifying trans people are being reported by identity rather than by sex.

[pixie374]

But what is the answer, mozz? Do we treat people by sex or gender?
You can't honestly suggest that we ignore "identification" "sometimes".
Either we do or we don't? Does it matter, or do we just not take it seriously?

[Mozz71]

I don't think things can be judged in such a black and white manner Pixie. People should be free to identify as they will, but if they are convicted of a crime, even more so a violent crime, then they lose their right of choice, the same way as they lose their civil rights. Nobody in their right mind would consider jailing someone with a history of violence against woman in a prison full of potential victims. Common sense must prevail and the safety of many prioritise the rights of one person.

[AuntPG]

Pixie I welcome your opinions because at least if you don't agree you can put forward an opposing point of view without being rude -yes I struggle with that, that why I admire you ;-)

Anyway, I am of the opinion a man has a penis and a woman a vagina, end of, as they say. However, there are people who struggle with their gender, which I class, wrongly or rightly, as a mental health issue. As I would never call someone suffering from a mental health issue in derogatory terms, I would never call someone with gender issues in this way either.

[pixie374]

They should be, mozz..in that black/White's actually more varied than male/female. You can only be one or the other, there aren't alternatives. And you can't change between. Would you agree with that?

The most ironic part, is that even genuine transsexuals (dysmorphia etc) don't genuinely believe they have "changed sex". Transgender is a different matter.
2 questions for you, mozz. Like most people here- you missed my last one:-)
- do you think there are actual sex differences between men and women? And what.
- would you agree with me claiming to be black, purely by imitation?

[pixie374]

Ps mozz... nothing to do with "identification", people can present or think whatever they like, as far as I'm concerned.

[pixie374]

Thanks apg, and likewise.
Actually totally agree. And for me, there are two problems. The effect it has on women (safety,privacy, sports etc)
And- on transpeople, who are literally sterilising themselves, for something they can never achieve.

I would much prefer, that we educate men to be accepting of different presentations, than either loading it on to women, or saying men are not allowed to wear dresses or makeup. They can do that- and still be men.

[Mozz71]

Pixie

Just to clarify, when I said "black or white", I meant in terms of thinking of only two difinitive answers, rather than the many variables that need to be considered in these cases, no intention towards bringing race into the whole discussion.

Anyway, onto your questions.

1. Medically, of course there is. I'm not knowledgeable enough about transexual issues to know whether there are physical/hormonal issues with genuine Trans folk, or whether they should be classed as mental issues like APG mentions. Some people are born with disabilities, a tint number are born hermaphrodite. Given that, it's completely feasable that some could be born the wrong gender.

2. No, because unlike Transexuality, there is no possible medical condition behind race. Any attempt to identify as a different race is entirely down to personal desire, or as previously mentioned, mental illness.

[AuntPG]

This particular person, a member of extended family has been what we thought was transvestite for around two years -think I've made reference to this in a previous post when someone made derogatory remarks about men in dresses. He's just dropped it on everyone he's going the full nine yards now with gender reassignment surgery. I wish he wouldn't, as he could be having a mental health crisis which may calm down, but he(she)'s adamant and all we can do is support, though sometimes I wonder if we are enabling him too much. Whatever, its their decision, but I wonder if they will feel any different when they no longer have a penis -personally I don't think so.

[naomi24]

Regardless of how they feel with or without their bits and pieces they’re never going to feel like a woman. They can have no idea what it feels like to be a woman.

[Mozz71]

By the same measure Naomi, we can have no idea how it feels to be transgender. They don't really need to feel like a woman how you (or any other naturally born woman) identify it, they just have to feel like a woman in their mind.

[pixie374]

Thanks mozz x
Firstly, there "are" only two definitive answers, male and female are binary. Hermaphrodites don't exist in mammals, and intersex people are still male or female (almost always male) and while we deliberately separate them from "transgender" i suspect, occasionally, there could physically be a link.

We know both transgender or transsexual are medical and a mental health condition anyway. How are you so sure that making them sterile and offering cosmetic surgery... is the best way for them?

[pixie374]

17:09, apg, please, and this genuinely isn't meant to be "a point" ,over 80% of pre-op people change their minds after 2 years of antidepressants. Please, get him to try that first at least.