Covid New Variants / Strains

[Bazile]

We are being urged(including a new ad campaign ) to have the covid booster to counter the Omicron variant

It's likely that there will be new variants down the line that will require new vaccines .

So are we destined for a life ,for the foreseeable future of having to have constant jabs ?

[Peter Pedant]

// think there was a gap of about fifty years between the two.//

yes yes indeed m lud, but I think the point is, it wasnt BEFORE the 1918 epidemic.

There is alot on wiki on this - I think they could only get it to grow in stoats, but doesnt really illuminate where we are now. and they dug up frozen eskimos. good televisual stuff. and the orphanage where all the adults died overnight and the eldest left alive was - - 14 still exists....(1918)

[pixie374]

//One always reverts to worst case scenarios when giving examples though yes ?//

Definitely not. Especially if you have a valid point to actually make. Or you would also be telling us that vaccines kill people.
Why the dishonesty about it, if you're right? It makes even me a bit dubious.

[Peter Pedant]

not at present
the computer geeks have told the govt Jan 2022 deaths pere week may be 600 or 6000. - phew

call mystic meg !

[Stickybottle]

pixie374
//One always reverts to worst case scenarios when giving examples though yes ?//

Definitely not. Especially if you have a valid point to actually make. Or you would also be telling us that vaccines kill people.
Why the dishonesty about it, if you're right? It makes even me a bit dubious.

Dishonesty about what ?
Are you saying that since January 2020 that nobody has been tubes or died on a ventilator ?
Are you aware of what is currently happening in mainland europe as a result of the latest massive spike ?

https://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre/sections/press-releases/2021/the-who-european-region-could-hit-over-2-million-covid-19-deaths-by-march-2022.-we-can-avoid-reaching-this-grim-milestone-by-taking-action-now

[Peter Pedant]

// Are you saying that since January 2020 that nobody has been tubes or died on a ventilator ?
no I dont think she is


Are you aware of what is currently happening in mainland europe as a result of the latest massive spike ? - - - erm they seem to have unlinked cases and hospital admissions as well

America ( yeah agreed no Europe) there has been one death and huge numbers of infections

so I agree it is OK to wait and see....( thank youMr Baldwin 1935)

[Stickybottle]

Peter Pedant
// Are you saying that since January 2020 that nobody has been tubes or died on a ventilator ?
no I dont think she is

So omnipotent one
What IS she claiming is dishonest ?
She has not been back to elucidate ! Lol

[Gromit]

// Vaccination against influenza began in the 1930s, with large-scale availability in the United States beginning in 1945. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines. //

I will bow yo your superior knowledge if yo remember we didn’t get flu jabs until the 1980s.

[Smowball]

Gromit - sorry for being so late to the thread, but do you have any figures as to how effective the flu vaccination has been over the years? Am just curious x

[jno]

Smow, I'll leave Gromit to answer in full, but broadly, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. They usually build up data from the other side of the world on the grounds that what happens in Sydney may happen in London 6 months later. But viruses change all the time and sometimes, not all that often, they get it wrong.

Here's a story about why the 2014-15 vaccine wasn't so successful

https://www.science.org/content/article/why-last-year-s-flu-vaccine-didnt-work-so-well

[Peter Pedant]

"what is she claiming?" asks Lickybottle
omnipotent PP answers - well ask her: I am omnipotent but still not a telepath

and anyway who can tell what is in a leddy's mind ?

And sticko - I am not a keen fan of arguments in the form:
"X is the case...."
"so you are saying that X never occurs wiv Y and Z occurs too are you? "

I am much keener on " X is not the case because....."
me that is me; I am odd I am

[Peter Pedant]

// Here's a story about why the 2014-15 vaccine wasn't so successful// why not say: sometimes they are good and sometimes they are not so good?

early typhoid was pretty useless - Cholera vaccine didnt work at all until Lorente de No showed there was an exotoxin....(1959). BCG didnt ork at all as a cure for TB for which Koch got a nobel - not to bad as a vaccine in north european populations and crap in American Indians

[naomi24]

Nailit, I know you don't like the idea of your body being invaded by chemicals but you don’t seem to feel the same about the chemicals in cigarettes which are proven to be harmful. Why is that? And what if you needed chemo? Would you reject that?

[Peter Pedant]

nearer than that;
Nailit if you got Covid - would you take the foreign chemical and agents needed to get you through?

[New Judge]

//One always reverts to worst case scenarios when giving examples though yes ?//

No one doesn’t. The idea of providing information about the virus is to enable people to assess the risk it poses to them. Risk has two elements: the likelihood of something happening (e.g. contracting a virus) and the effects that it will have in the event it occurs (e.g. being hospitalised, ventilated or dying). To portray predominantly the “worst case scenario” is exactly what the medics have been doing throughout, and it seems to be increasingly evident that they do so because government ministers have asked them to.

//Are you saying that since January 2020 that nobody has been tubes or died on a ventilator ?//

Nobody is saying that. But if you are going to explain that it happens you need to explain how likely it is to happen to an individual. Simply saying that n thousands of people have needed ventilation is quite correct, but it is meaningless unless you explain how many more thousands don’t. So whilst your remark is not dishonest, it’s certainly of no great benefit when it comes to assessing risk and it is arguably designed to instil fear and anxiety into people (because many people simply take what they read at face value).

As an aside (and since you mention it) “case law” is a system where court rulings are handed down and recorded as precedents, when statutes or common law (itself built up largely from custom and precedents) do not entirely cover the individual circumstances of a situation. Those precedents are then used to help rulings when similar circumstances arise. It has nothing to do with “worst case scenarios.”

[dannyk13]

Jourdain //. Eventually it may be possible to give them both at the ame time //
I had by flu jab and booster at the same time without any ill effects.

[pixie374]

Sorry, sb... had to go to work. Obviously, nj has worded it best, but the reason I used "dishonest"- is because giving "worst case scenarios" and one side only, as an example, with no balancing, is, dishonest to me.
Surely it's more honest to give "all" info, to help people decide?

[jno]

\\// Here's a story about why the 2014-15 vaccine wasn't so successful// why not say: sometimes they are good and sometimes they are not so good?\\

I did. In the sentence before.

[bobbinwales]

I see no need to get hung up on worst case scenarios. We do planning at work all the time on sales , absensces/staff availabilty, stock shortages, sales... we do best case, worst case and best/middle estimate. We plan for all 3 but hope the worst case its not going to happen but have to have a contingency
As long as your clear what your talking about I dont see an issue as long as you see the worst case as just one possible outcome.

[Stickybottle]

pixie374
Sorry, sb... had to go to work. Obviously, nj has worded it best, but the reason I used "dishonest"- is because giving "worst case scenarios" and one side only, as an example, with no balancing, is, dishonest to me.

Ah I get it
You are confusing facts with dishonesty

Just as an aside did anybody see the news earlier with the bbc on a Covid ward in London ?
Most on there were of the younger than average group and 80 percent were unvaccinated
These are the people that are delaying vital cancer and life changing surgery

[pixie374]

SB //Ah I get it
You are confusing facts with dishonesty//

A deliberate lack facts, or onesideness only, IS dishonesty.

What I don't get, is that you have a valid point. As do the media, gov, a few other ABers, but you make it look suspicious and a bit agenda-like, by seeming to only push one way.
Anyone trustworthy, would give the stats and facts of deaths, hospitalisation, illnesses of covid- plus- the same for vaccines.
I don't understand why you make yourself look dodgy, when you are probably not far wrong.