A Reasonable Point

[sp1814]

https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1507005468383715342?s=21

[sunny-dave]

There is more than one way to commit genocide - if you don't have the bombing technology, then forcing people to starve when the fields are full of corn is ... effective.

[dannyk13]

Gness, of course they matter,All I am saying is that what happened in Ireland pales in comparison to what is happening in Ukraine which is nothing less than genocide.

[sp1814]

dannyk13

That's not what the clip is saying. It's saying that interviewee hasn't realised that Russia's attitude to the Ukraine is similar to the English attitude to the Irish.

If you listened to what he was saying and were shown pictures of the Troubles it'd fit.

[gness]

Well when two of your children die with their mouths stained green from the grass they were eating, Danny, I think the pain and despair is just the same.

[sunny-dave]

It is estimated that the Famine caused about 1 million deaths between 1845 and 1851 either from starvation or hunger-related disease. A further 1 million Irish people emigrated. This meant that Ireland lost a quarter of its population during those terrible years.

All this whilst the English landowners in Ireland exported many thousands of tons of corn to England.

That looks a reasonable comparison to Ukraine?

[New Judge]

//But do you see other comparisons?//

The only similarity I see between the two is both were appalling acts of violence perpetrated by a foreign power. For any individual affected the result is the same. But there the similarity ends. The scale of the Russian onslaught, its severity and outcome bear no resemblance to the various slaughters and evictions in Ireland.

[douglas9401]

No danny, I'm just passing through, thinking about Campbells and McDonalds all those years ago.

I've moved on.

[sunny-dave]

I refer you to my answer posted contemporaneously with yours, NJ - the scale is entirely comparable.

[New Judge]

//If you listened to what he was saying and were shown pictures of the Troubles it'd fit.//

If you're just comparing the Troubles to the Ukrainian situation, there is definitely no comparison. My comparison stretched back a little further than that. They were a result of conflict between Unionists and Republicans, not a consequence of invading foreign forces.

[sp1814]

NJ

"For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist, and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine. Clearly that's wrong on so many levels. Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist..."

Similarities.

[gness]

New Judge's knowledge of what happened here is sadly lacking.

[naomi24]

The Irish were treated shamefully and I understand the principle the man is talking about but I don’t think there is a realistic comparison between the two situations. Additionally the ability to separate the individual from the nation is far from unique to the Irish. I think that’s found in most societies.

[sp1814]

No - if you listen to the piece again, it's not the two situations that are being compared, but underlying attitude. The interviewee said:

//For two decades or even longer, the big neighbour to the north has said 'you have no right to exist', and even sent troops to turn Ukraine into the vassal state lead by a puppet government - possible annex parts of Ukraine.

Clearly that's wrong on so many levels.

Clearly that denies Ukrainians the possibility of deciding for themselves how they want to live, how they want to exist...//

He's not talking about the specifics of the two conflicts but the hypocrisy of wagging our figures at Russia when arguably the English did pretty much the same to the Irish.

[wolf63]

I agree with SP and gness and Dave.

The total deaths and physical destruction differs but the psychology of the oppressors is the same "I want your land, I will take it".

[youngmafbog]

I see.

English bad again. What a surprise.

[naomi24]

YMB, that’s the impression I got. Perhaps SP would rather we ignore Ukraine on principle.

[jno]

no reason why NJ or anyone here should "recall" what happened to the Irish, but among other incidents since the time of Henry II, Cromwell sent his army to subdue the Irish; they killed possibly half the population (estimates vary widely on this), killed soldiers (including many who had surrendered) and civilians alike, transported thousands as "indentured labour", and left famine and bubonic plague behind them. I wouldn't swear Ukraine is worse off, allowing for technological advances in weaponry.

[gness]

Well yes, Youngmafbog...'fraid so.....unless you think they came over here to do good, teach us to be civilised and well advised and raise us gently from the slime ....as the song goes.... ;-)

[naomi24]

Okay. We’ve established that the English are bad. Now what?

[ichkeria]

I just see a 57 second video stating the obvious
Otherwise, looking at some of the comments here, I’d be inclined to quote a fellow Irishmen on “comparisons”