Our rebate is not up for negotiation

[Dom Tuk]

Remember those famous words uttered less than 3 months ago. So we give up �7bn. From my reading the French and others will have committed to discussing their farming subsidies in 2008. So arent we the losers. We give up our rebate today...(?????) and the french promise to discuss their subsidies in 2008. They have not said that they will cut their subsidies, just review it. This is back to Browns cut married couples allowance today and in a years time you can apply for child tax credit.

[Dom Tuk]

So JNO why the statement by our PM just a few months ago that 'we will not negotiate our rebate'. It was said in the parliament. He also addressed some chamber of commerce in the Uk and repeated his mantra just a few weeks ago (its all in the web somewhere). So why say this blatant untruths when he knew all along that he was willing to give our rebate away. It surely cannot be the case that our PM and advisers changed their minds within the past few weeks. Do we run our affairs in this manner. Do the advisers suddenly twig that may be we should give up our rebate. No this was in his mind a while ago. Also is it not frigtening that our PM does not even consult his chancellor before increasing our contribution from �7bn to �10 bn. Not only was the chancellor not consulted, the chancellor has made it clear that he was at the end of a phone call and the treasury representative at Brussels was in the preiphery of all discussions.

JNO i accept that we have to make the poorer countries rich...we have fed off them for a long time and i am not only talking about europe. But let us have a PM who for once in his life can tell the truth and not spin his actions out as if he has divine prorogative on his side as he couches it always in terms of 'but it is to help someone'.

[Dom Tuk]

Luckyboy, yes we have to pay more than the poorer countries. We have to help those who have just joined like Poland, latvia, Lithuania, Czech republic etc to become modern european countries and we will have to pay for their roads, hospitals etc. No doubt in my mind about that. But did our PM realise this within the past few weeks?. Why then say we will not negotiate our rebate when he knew fully well that if he wants to uphold his european ideals then he will have to cut his rebate. The newer nations that have joined had a committment from us that we Europe will pay them so much of the budget. Or is our parliament a place where you can say something that you know is not correct. Do we make european policy on the hoof?

[jno]

Dom Tuk I think the answer is the obvious one: yes, they did change their mind in the last few weeks. They hoped it wouldn't be necessary in order to achieve what they wanted to do; it became so. When situations change it's not a sin to change your approach - people do it all the time.

[Dom Tuk]

So a U turn then. Wait and see if Mr. Blair agrees it was one.

[Dom Tuk]

The numbers here are taken from the times

''Britain gives up a fifth of its rebate, amounting to �7.1 billion over 2007-13. Britain�s net contribution goes up by 63 per cent from �25.7 billion in 2000-06 budget, to �42 billion in 2007-13 budget

French net contributions rise by 116 per cent from �16.8 billion to �35.3 billion

Italian net contributions rise by 135 per cent from �13.5 billion to �31.8 billion

Spain remains a net recipient until 2013, and gets �2 billion for research and development''

So France pays in less and takes out more. Now they have said they and Ireland will veto any changes proposed by the UK for the period 2007-2014. They insist that the CAP will remain in place until 2014. words thumb and nose come to mind.

[jno]

I think those are the figures I quoted, or tried to, Dom Tuk. But are you reading them right? France's net contribution - that must mean the total given, minus the rebates etc taken back - more than doubles, up 116%. How do you read that as paying in less and taking out more?