Our rebate is not up for negotiation

[Dom Tuk]

Remember those famous words uttered less than 3 months ago. So we give up �7bn. From my reading the French and others will have committed to discussing their farming subsidies in 2008. So arent we the losers. We give up our rebate today...(?????) and the french promise to discuss their subsidies in 2008. They have not said that they will cut their subsidies, just review it. This is back to Browns cut married couples allowance today and in a years time you can apply for child tax credit.

[Loosehead]

With you Dom.

As usual in the EU we get shafted because our politicians do not look after our interests like the others. There's no way France will give up the CAP.

Why don't we just get out of this anti British club.

[Chessman]

I said this would happen, and got a bit of flak for it, but I believe it was always going to happen, regardless of what our PM has said in the past, he's to caught up with the Euro dream, and will sacrifice our independence for it.

[carolegif]

Once again Tony has sold us down the river. He has been cpmpletely outmanoevered by Chirac. Just goes to show how thick when he is negotiating on his own. More taxes for us all and more cutbacks. We should get out now or move to France.

carolegif

[mash]

Blair has consistantly kept a suitable amount of disparity between his words and his actions throughout his leadership, why should this have been any different? He had backed himself into a corner with this debate some time ago and fearfull of the serious negitive press in not getting a deal on this one let the UK down. I believe he is right to fight for change in the way the EU works and manages its money and admire him for that, however he needs to see real actions and commitment by other countries before he gives up what the UK has.

As daft and outdated as the CAP is, you have to admire the french leaders for their ability to stand firm, negociate hard and support their citizens, we could do with a little of that!

[mike1222]

"Blair has consistantly kept a suitable amount of disparity between his words and his actions"

I suppose that's just a clever way of saying that he is a liar. It always amuses me the way otherwise sensible people can take politicians, and what they say, with any credibility. When will people realise that they are ALL liars and are in politics, not because of any altruistic motives, but for their own ends............"the British rebate is not up for negotiation"......as they would say in the Royle family......"my ar*e!!"

[WendyS]

Yes, Tony's betrayed us once again and the French farmers are laughing like drains. Say what you like about Margaret Thatcher but at least she was prepared to stand up alone against the whole European Union and fight for British interests to get our rebate. Now look what's happened to it ! She must be feeling sick today and the rest of us will just be digging deeper into our pockets and paying more taxes. Better stop ranting now before I burst a blood vessel !!

[Chessman]

Tony's been betraying us ever since he got in, he has two goals.

1) Europe.

2) The destruction of England as a nation.

I don't mind if i'm taken to task on this, but please remember, you read it here first.

[jrtv]

So we have to pay 7.2 billion from our rebate and in return Blair has got a commitment to a 2008 review on EU spending, ( that happens anyway ) but failed to secure any commitment from France to give up lavish farm subsidies, he's a w****r .

[Dom Tuk]

And here is the beauty of it all. Frace may review their farming subsidies in 2008 but have got a committment from our idiot PM that any changes can only be applicable from....wait for it......2013. So who has come out on top here. Our spin machine has been putting a huge positive slant on it, but apart from making the poorer EU countries richer (they were not in it for anything else) there is no benefit to us. But tell Blair that.

[gary baldy]

The huge irony here is that the reason we had such a large rebate is that when it was agreed in 1984 Britain was on its a**e. Thatcher didnt 'win' this rebate - we needed it after being dragged down the European league by her government. Other European countries were paying to prop up our economy. Now we have a very strong economy and are much better off the others obviously resent paying so much. It is the typical arrogance of the British to say that we 'deserve' this and 'deserve' that - the EU is swings and roundabouts. You should be glad the Gordon Brown (who hasn't taken us into the Euro -reminder to all those who say we are the mercy of the EU!) has created an economy that is strong enough to make the other members jealous and therefore want their money back.

[jrtv]

You are so right Gary, Britain was on It's arse, it always is after Labour have been in power so thank god we had Mrs Thatcher there to come to the much needed rescue, between her taking over and the rebate in 1984 interest rates were slashed from 17% to 8.5% and as a result of these dramatic rate cuts the value of sterling halved, giving what was left of the manufacturing industry an enormous boost. Mrs Thatcher's economic recovery continued with trade union reform, the sale of council houses, financial deregulation, etc, her privatisation reforms consolidated the recovery.

Gordon Brown took over when Britain was the 4th largest economy in the world, let's see what he leaves behind when the Tories come to the rescue again.

[gary baldy]

... giving what was left of the manufacturing industry an enormous boost.

Are you being serious?!? Thatcher despised manufacturing and did all she could to get rid of it.

....Mrs Thatcher's economic recovery continued with trade union reform,

'reform'?- what by undermining workers rights, outlawing unions and destroying whole communites in the process.

....the sale of council houses

Which has directly led to the runaway house prices and the housing crisis we now have.

.... financial deregulation and her privatisation reforms

That gave away all the family jewels into the hands of greedy multinationals and now our utilities are owned by the europeans you all claim to hate.

[jrtv]

But New Labour has done nothing to change anything, in fact it got elected on following Tory polices, we had a pottery industry at my neck of the woods until a few years ago when it all started going abroad, now all we have is call centres, now they are going to India. Our car works have just shut down and I can't find work, I'm only glad I bought my council house and had some shares, so what now ? I'm going to look for a public sector job, if there arn't any I'm sure they can make one up !

[luckyboy]

jrtv, there are many things that blair has done that i totally disagree with, but you and others lose me when you bang on about this government getting everything wrong and being a complete failure..its just political bias gone mad.. every government make decisions that part or most of the electorate disagree with from time to time it was ever thus..

Thatcher in fairness to her did some good work, curbing union power, and putting through much needed market reforms...but

Let me remind you.

Under the conservatives amongst many things one of which was a serious undermining of our manufacturing base, we had three recessions, and for a period of time interest rates were at 15% which led to a record number of mortgage repossessions..

Labour under brown as chancellor have a phenomenal economic record. The economy has grown for 53 consecutive quarters, the longest stretch since the Romans created full employment through a massive road-building programme. Household net wealth is 50 per cent higher than when Labour arrived in office. For most families, the past decade has been the �never had it so good� era.

Just redressing a bit of political balance in this obviously partisan thread.

[Dom Tuk]

luckyboy care to talk about how the french president outsmarted our labour PM this week in Brussels. That was the question and you chose not to answer it.

[Zen]

On behallf of ze French agricultural industrie,Zank you very much to Les rosbifs for ze money,we now go to ze banque every week wiz our subsidy cheques and laugh all ze way,while you wait on your trolleys to be seen in your filthy hospitals that you cannot keep clean (MRSA ) because you give your tax money to us filthy french farmers !!!

[jno]

as I understand it, British payments to the EU rise by about 70% under the new budget - but French ones go up by about 110%. The French pay slightly more of their gross national income to the EU than Britain does.

What we're talking about, I think, is not so much Britain paying France but paying the new, poor members of the union. Since that's the whole point of the union - to try to raise the wealth of the whole continent - this is probably no bad thing. (The overall notion is that in the long run richer Poles, say, will be better able to buy British goods.)

Most of the brokering behind the budget deal was done by the new German chancellor, Angela Merkel. (She agreed that EU funds meant for East Germany could go to Poland instead, to win their agreement.) She was so successful that Chirac is frantically pretending it was all his work. Everyone knows it wasn't.

[nedflanders]

jno. I dont know the facts and figures so can you answer this.

"The French pay slightly more of their gross national income to the EU than Britain does"

but how much will they receive back compared to Britain?

As far as I can tell Britain and Germany are the losers here, France get off scot free.

I agree with loosehead, pull out now! the EU not Iraq!

[jno]

sorry ned, don't have the full figures to hand - the ones I quoted were in the Financial Times but I didn't actually have it in front of me while writing. But I repeat, this was never a short term project. The idea is to get all Europe wealthy (actually, the original idea was just to get it peaceful) so that countries can be markets for each other's goods. That means that in the short term, money will go from rich to poor, which isn't something that much upsets me.

[luckyboy]

Dom tuk, let me ask you one, is it right in 2005-6 for a wealthy country like our own to still have such a generous rebate, when there are many countries on their economic arses?. times have changed since the early eighties you know.mainly down to britain enjoying such a long run of economic prosperity, a fact you always choose to ignore because it gets in the way of your tedious anti labour point scoring.