The Tories

[Paigntonian]

I suspect there is a majority ant-Tory view among ABers and that's fine. But, as life-long Tory, I just despair that Sunak and Truss are so uninspiring and, frankly, mediocre.

[JDavis]

Didn't think that was what we were discussing.

Was Flashman likeable? Thought he was a bully and anti-hero?

[Atheist]

Flashman was likeable in the sense that he was enjoyable as a fictional character. His good traits were that he knew he was a rogue and admitted it freely in his 'memoirs'. He was also handsome and courageous.
Sorry if I've gone off-topic.

[Untitled]

capitalism is a very very versatile system… it is possible to have a much more equitable economy than we have now without being socialist… and countries which do that tend to have a much happier population even if they have a slightly smaller GDP!

[Untitled]

the majority of people in the UK do not typically vote Tory… a deeply unsatisfactory part of our system is that the government of the day does not usually command a majority of the electorate… it is the cause of many serious problems…

[Zacs-Master]

‘ it is possible to have a much more equitable economy than we have now without being socialist’

Would you explain how that could be implemented and maintained?

[Untitled]

state ownership of natural monopolies (utilities and public transport) high top-level income tax and moderate corporation tax used to fund smaller scale but high-quality tertiary education… high minimum wage and fewer working hours per week.

[Untitled]

The nordic countries consistently rank among the happiest countries in the developed world…. they do some or all of these things and they are still capitalist countries that are not in any danger of economic collapse

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2020/the-nordic-exceptionalism-what-explains-why-the-nordic-countries-are-constantly-among-the-happiest-in-the-world/

[naomi24]

Atheist, //Your view on what human nature is or should be is probably based on what sort of human you are.//

I detect yet another whiff of insult there from you but you really shouldn't make assumptions about people you don’t know, The fact is human nature is selfish which is why communist/socialist societies can never work, but it doesn’t follow that every human being is devoid of altruism - regardless of their politics.

[drmorgans]

Naomi, I don't normally agree with you but I think you're right about many Labour voters having a Tory mindset.

Scenario: Truss becomes PM but messes up badly and resigns, MP's see the light and bring Bozo back. Possible??

[Untitled]

there is a significant difference between someone who adheres to conservative values (pact between old and young, respect for tradition, duty above self, responsibility toward the disadvantaged)… and a Tory, i.e. someone who supports the party that calls itself conservative…

i do not necessarily agree with all conservative values and would probably say i am left-wing… but i can respect them as principals. If I am honest I find it very very difficult to respect tories… though i do try.

[emmie]

my best friends are life long Labour voters, yet have an inspirational Tory life style, kids in very good schools, now owners of a 1.1m home, shop at the best they can buy outlets, what's not to love.

[drmorgans]

Do you mean "aspirational" rather than "inspirational"? Nothing wrong with being a socialist and wanting a better life for yourself.

[emmie]

nothing wrong with it, but they despise the Tories as did their parents before them.

[davebro]

I think the term is "champagne socialists" (cf. the Blairs)

[emmie]

i think you are right dave, though they would be mortified if i used that term.

[Untitled]

I don’t think aspiring to better your life is a “tory mindset”… by that definition the RMT strikers would be tories.

[davebro]

I don't think the strikers would class their objective as "a better life" simply "not a worse one".

But when it is obvious that some belt-tightening is required all round it's rather selfish that those with muscle should try to exempt themselves whilst others take the strain.

[Untitled]

point still stands… “aspiring to a better life” mean doesn’t necessarily mean aspiring to have more money. I would much rather be able to get an ambulance or a cop in time to help if I need them… or a GP appointment when necessary… or safe working conditions for people on the infrastructure I use… than have slightly more money than I currently do and none of those things.

[Zacs-Master]

A very good way to describe strike action there, Davebro.

Untitled - Thanks for explaining how our economy could be improved. Unfortunately, taxing high end earners even more goes against the Tory ethos. Whilst low, the Scandinavian countries aren’t free from poverty / social exclusion either:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Share_of_people_at_risk_of_poverty_or_social_exclusion_for_households_with_or_without_dependent_children,_2020_(%25)_F2_new.png

[Untitled]

I don’t believe in utopias zacs but I do think our economy could be made more equitable without becoming a socialist state… that’s the only reason i mention them…. They are still capitalist countries even though they do those things. Even Adam Smith believed in wealth distribution and did not see it as inconsistent with a market economy if done correctly.