child abuse

[NORMANTHEDOG]

having seen the news this evening regarding the couple from sheffield who neglected their 5 children to the point of them nearly dying from starvation,who do we hold responsible for not detecting it earlier,the social services,the police,who visited the house,why does this sort of thing keep rearing its ugly head time and time again.

[Coobeastie]

I saw this too and to be honest its a really tricky one. Its fine to say that they should have all been talking to each other in retrospect but the minute they do they'll as likely get hit with a claim for infringing peoples human rights.

A lot of the times either they don't know who they should tell or are to worried of breaking data protection laws that they keep any details in house.

Personally though i think the parents (if you can call them that) should be neutered and locked away for a lot longer than the 7 years they've received.

[coyn]

What the f**k is tricky about this pair of scumbags they should be put to death today

[Coobeastie]

Its tricky in that if you read the question normanthedogis asking its who do we blame for not detecting and reporting the abuse.

I agree they are scumbags.But we haven't got a death penalty which is why I said that the paltry 7 years that they've received is too little and that they should be neutured to stop then producing any more children and should have got a longer jail sentence.

[coyn]

I think Coobeastie we agree in principle, neutering is the least these dirtbags should expect

[boobesque]

you need a license to own a gun, you need a license to own a dog, and yet anyone can have a child, and this happens. Time and time again there are children being neglected and ignored in this country. There was a case recently where a little girl was killed by her step dad, she was swung by her legs into a wall and her mother did nothing, the childs dad had phoned social services time and time again and the social worker was on holiday and no one ever got back to him.

PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BEING SCARED TO REPORT PEOPLE LIKE THIS< I MYSELF REPORTED SOMEONE AND MY ENQUIRY WAS DEALT WITH AND THE CHILD WAS FOSTERED AND HAPPY BUT WHAT GOOD IS IT IF IN CASES LIKE THIS THE SOCIAL SERVICES LET THEM DOWN?

[boobesque]

oops that isnt meant to be in caps somethings has happened to my keyboard!

[libertie]

Of course it's ultimately a parents responsibility to care for their children but unfortunately not all children enjoy the luxury of responsible caring parents ~ and that should be when social services are called in, but there does frequently seem to be a lack of communication between the different agencies involved!! Having said that I find it difficult to believe though, that the state of their home and indeed the children went unnoticed by teachers, friends, family and neighbours!

Like boobesque I would have no hesitation in reporting anything that I was truly concerned about!!

[libertie]

Meant to add that I hope they manage to keep the children together...bit unlikely I suppose as there are five of them...and that they are happy and settled and looking forward to a lovely Christmas!

[Drusilla]

Sadly Norman, I think we only have ourselves as a people to blame. I have just returned from Italy where my French in-laws live and have always been astounded by the different attitude to children. My girls are welcomed by all the villagers and not just tolerated; they are spoken to with kindness and not ignored or moaned at; they are welcomed into restaurants and not shunted to a corner table out of the way.
The English are obsessed with child abuse, but don't seem to like children very much and prefer them quiet, docile and out of the way. I sometimes feel we treat them as a separate species to be excluded, rather than included in our lives.
I have a lot of sympathy for Social Workers who are overloaded with work and abused endlessly. We want them to do a superhuman job and yet object to paying higher taxes to increase their numbers and reduce workloads.
We seem to enjoy blaming professionals when the culprits in most cases of abuse are parents, or step parents. The lack of extended families today, where each generation learned its parenting skills from relatives, may necessitate the crazy solution of teaching far more parenting skills in schools and pre-natal classes. I hate this idea, but many young people have no idea how to be a good parent and have to be taught somehow.
As for the parents in this case, I'm with coyn.

[Englishbird]

I agree with Drusilla, not about how children are treated in the UK, simply because i don't have any and therefore don't know. But we do like someone to blame.

I work indirectly in the Aerospace Industry (go with me here) and it's a given that 'one error - does not a plane crash cause'. A plane crash, as with car accidents, and most other accidents is alway a culmination of problems or errors.

We can start pointing the finger at all sorts of people for this absolute tragedy, but it is of course the fault of the 'parents' who disgust me, and any right minded soul.

Nobody in the Police, Social Services, Schools, Midwives, neighbours etc wanted this to happen, to the best of my knowledge they haven't 'turned a blind eye' to an atrocious level of abuse, they simply haven't seen what was right in front of them. I feel there is a lesson to be learned, and yes, of course the 'systems' should do everything possible to ensure it doesn't happen to the best of their ability, but I don't like finger pointing and blame laying, on it's own, gets us no-where.

[Oneeyedvic]

Couple of points I would like to make:

1) Coobeastie - Think it a bit strange that you realise that we don't have a death penalty but suggest that they are neutered. Unless I am missing something, they are as likely to be neutered as they are put to death.

2) Boobesque - The Dog Licence was abolished in 1986.

3) Whislt I agree that a lot of blame is not one specific person / department, there will be persons responsible.

I am afraid that I do like finger pointing etc, as otherwise, everyone just says, not my fault, shrugs and these sort of things happens again. Unlike a car or aeroplane, these are human beings. A mechanic can make a mistake and cause a break to fail killing the driver - he would then be charged with manslaughter. To me, if a social worker has not done their job correctly, they should have the same charge brought against them. That said, if the social worker has followed the correct procedures, then they are obviously not at fault.

[littlemissx]

i recently reported a neighbour anonomously due to the fact they were extremely drunk and called me to help board up a window that one of them had smashed.... on looking round the flat i saw that the baby was crawling around very close to the glass.... had no cot to sleep in and the parents were in no fit state to look after her..... she was roughly a year old. i suspected drug misuse but had no proof, i could obviously not take the baby out of the flat so all i could do was call Social Services and they came and the baby was removed.

the way i see things are... someone always see's what is going on, i would rather be hated and have the baby in safe hands than feel guilty if anything was ever to happen to the child. that someone whether it be friend or family or proffessional person should never think twice about reporting concerns over a childs welfare!!!!

[netibiza]

In the 1960's I report a couple for child abuse and luckily they were arrested and all ended up well - I had to leave town however, but that was no problem although I was made to feel like the guilty party - a small price to pay for some child's (in this case several) health and happiness.

[NORMANTHEDOG]

thanks for your replies, i also agree with the few of you regarding children abroad,luckily we have a small apartment in cyprus and visit 3/4 times a year,since 1995,my son now has more friends over there than he has here,hes treated like a king by old and young,as you have put,its a different mentality to children,some countries put their children above all . maybe we should look to the greeks,italians,spianish for some guidance. i dont know!

[Coobeastie]

Oneyedvic.

Good point. Though might be easier to get this ok'd into the statute books than getting the death penalty reinstated.