Junior Doctor Strike - Good For Them??

[Prudie]

I'm open to be educated here but doctors on strike today and asking for a 35% pay increase. My question is really that nearly 70% of the country are supporting their action. Why is it so popular. Is it because we think they deserve such an increase or is it partly to support any group that helps to topple the government?

[MissTerious2]

I was brought up in the old days when doctors were highly respected members of society and probably rightly so. It was a vocation and they actually cared about us. Those days have very obviously gone. It's a cruel, greedy world we live in now.

[Prudie]

I actually don't understand the Midsomer thread reference, I never watched it but I assume it means middle class comfortably off people who live in the shires and dismiss the downtrodden poor because they don't think they exist?

I don't class junior doctors as downtrodden (my word, I know). Like most professional people they have to start at the bottom but have the potential to rise very comfortably up ladder, very comfortably. I always thought medical staff chose that career because they actually cared about people?

As for the angel bit, yes if you're ill they can be angels but so can many professions - for example plumbers, electricians, mechanics and even hairdressers when you need specialist knowledge to help you out of a problem.

[Bazile]

//Ahem, the future king and queen studied art history. Show some respect.//

And look where it got them - nowhere

[ClareTG0ld]

I don't see why people doing something as a vocation precludes them wanting a decent amount of pay for it.

The context of the 35% pay rise claim is that this represents a return, in real terms, to the junior doctors' salary as it was in 2008. I would guess that this represents a peak, because the various graphs I've seen (eg https://www.bma.org.uk/media/5508/20220114-juniors-pay-campaign_facebook4.jpg ) seem to imply that average salaries have only fallen since -- apart from in the Covid pandemic. But that's when sympathy for medical staff was presumably at an all-time high, and still represents only a "pause" a minimal real-terms increase of 1% or so (see also https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/chart-of-the-week-what-has-happened-to-nhs-staff-pay-since-2010 , which provides a more comprehensive breakdown of salary trajectories, albeit since 2010, but also compares to the private sector).

Perhaps wanting to return at a stroke to 2008 levels is unachievable, and I wouldn't be surprised in this context if the various unions were prepared to settle for, say, a return to 2012/13 levels, which would be about half their pay demands. Then again, I'm not in the JD union, so what do I know as to what they'll settle for?

But once again the narrative that's skipped past here is that public sector pay has been significantly squeezed in the last 15 years or so, to the extent that many such workers have endured significant real-terms pay cuts. It isn't "greedy" to ask for that to be reversed.

[drmorgans]

The problem is that the government (Steve Barclay) has decided that they won't negotiate with the doctors due to their 35% pay claim. So it's an impasse, with the government presumably hoping the public will lose sympathy for the doctor for the disruption they have caused.

[theshedman]

There are a number of professions that are below the rate they were on say 10 years ago but they have settled for less than they asked for originally as they knew it was unachievable. The doctors and their paymasters need to sit and discuss this and not just not do anything except blame one another for the stalemate. Also give the public the correct information about their pay and not just the minimum they could possibly be earning which is written on some of the placards.

[MissTerious2]

Well, that's just what is happening.

[Untitled]

Their work is essential and difficult… it must be done someone and cannot be done by anyone and for that reason they are indeed entitled to good compensation for their labour.

their pay has stagnated for a decade and we all lose out if they pursue more money elsewhere… you’re either willing to pay for a health service or you’re not

[vulcan42]

Last year a doctors campaign group was formed with the aim of restoring pay to the pre austerity days of 2008. That's 15 years, most of the doctors on strike were children then, they must have known what their salary would be after qualifying, if it was considered to be so low, why did they decide to become doctors?

[Prudie]

I don't think anyone thinks they should be working just from the goodness of their heart but as said, most in the public sector have seen their pay reduced in real terms over the years. People I work with for starters. They do not have the luxury of holding the public over a barrel by striking though simply because their work doesn't seem to directly affect people in the street (even though in reality it does). Look who has been on the big strikes lately - nurses, doctors, ambulance workers - see a pattern?

[davebro]

it's not really about being WILLING to pay more like being able to AFFORD to pay

[Untitled]

one group being exploited does not mean that everyone else should be as well

[Untitled]

if we could afford to pay them better a decade ago we can afford it now

[naomi24]

//if we could afford to pay them better a decade ago we can afford it now //

How do you work that out?

[davebro]

doctors' pay isn't the only NHS expense - more (and more expensive) treatments & some ultra-expensive drugs are being introduced almost daily

[davebro]

and then there's the compensation being paid out for medical mistakes!

[MissTerious2]

I did not understand the Midsummer Murders remark either!

[Arksided]

Greedy nob heads jumping on the strike vocation, I’d help any fellow human for free.

[ladybirder]

Just call your vet if doctor isn't available. They can treat any type of animal;-)

[MissTerious2]

And their training period is longer, Lady Birder! I often wish I could take myself to a vet. A vet used to live almost opposite to us. I will always remember him treating Mr T 's back with a new horse massager and horse linament. He went on to become a big name in the horse racing world. The vet, not Mr T.