What To Do With Hs2

[dave50]

Cancel it all now and cut our losses? Carry on to Birmingham only? Carry on to Manchester? Whatever we do its been a disgusting waste of money on a huge white elephant. Should have been cancelled years ago and the money spent on the northern railway system.

[Gizmonster]

I just don't get this HS2 twaddle !!

You can currently get from Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston in just over 2 hours.  How much time is this HS2 going to cut off this .... half an hour, maybe a bit more??

Is it worth the billions just to cut off a bit of time??  I think not .....

I'm sure the money could be better spent elsewhere on the rail network.

[barry1010]

It's probably cheaper to fly from London to Manchester 

[Rosetta]

I believe the real intention was not just to cut travel time, but more importantly to free up, provide more lines?, for the increased traffic that has developed over the years, thus allowing more scope for better inter-regional/ local trains

[ToraToraTora]

sadly this project has been infected by idiots saying it's all about the speed of getting from a to b it's not anything to do with that. It's about taking traffic off the existing facilities that were built over 100 years ago that take freight and passengers. The idea is to create a new passenger route to leave the old route for freight. The cost is less than one year of the NHS get on with it and do a proper job. It's cheap as chips compared to our annual WSS budget. Big spend yes but an investment in infrastructure to lastr a century and for much less than one year of WSS. Do try and learn what things are really about people.

[nicebloke1]

True or false. The first loss is the best loss. The big knob who is getting £600k a year to run a rail line thats not even built yet should stand down. Even if they carried on building it, this knob would more than likely be retired or even dead before the first train ran up the tracks.

[mushroom25]

// Is it worth the billions just to cut off a bit of time??  //

that's not what has been driving the HS2 project.

taking as a first step, the problem to be solved: capacity on the 3 major north-south railways from London is completely full; congestion is a daily issue, and any incident on them creates chaos that last for hours, or in some cases, days. (the "journey from hell" reported in MSM this week reulted from a 3 hour afternoon line closure for a track defect, delays and cancellations from the resultant congestion were still occurring lunchtime the following day). the traffic fall-off from Covid has largely recovered, especially in the leisure market. plus covid restrictions meant commuters could move and live further from their offices. now that attendance at offices is again gaining ground, there's more demand on longer distance trains when people do need to go into work.

so more capacity is needed. the last time capacity was required, the West Coast Main Line was upgraded. the upgrade took more than 10 years and at the end of that time the project still wasn't finished, but the money had all run out. nevertheless the upgrade that was completed was meant to future proof the route until 2028; in the event however, all of the extra capacity was used up by 2017. a further upgrade would probably take decades and because it would be work on an existing railway, the disruption would be extensive, with many journeys made by Bertie the replacement bus, and no possibility of moving freight from road to rail during that time.

Building new is far less disruptive, and if you're going to do that, you might as well build it the best you can. so build for the fastest trains available. it's the speed that everyone focuses on, but that's only a by-product of the need to solve the capcity problem. moving the fast trains to their own dedicated railway provides that much needed capacity for local, commuter and freight trains, and for future growth, which must come as the country pushes toward net zero.

[ToraToraTora]

Mushroom a good solid post, the morons still persist in claiming it's about saving 20 minutes. We need to do this with knobs on.

[ToraToraTora]

We can do HS2 properly for 1 year of NHS budget (don't start me) and it will last 100 years, bargain - should not even be a discussion.

[jno]

I agree, nothing to do with cutting 20 seconds off a trip to London, a lot to do with proving more track to use.

None the less, the fact that it's currently costing three times its original estimate makes you wonder who didn't do their sums.

[jno]

...providing...

[nicebloke1]

A job on that scale is pretty impossible to estimate.

[ToraToraTora]

the estimate is irrelevant, it's currently approx 76Bn, double that and it's one year of NHS or a tiny proportion of WSS. Double it, still a bargain frankly I am amazed we are even talking about it.

[mushroom25]

// who didn't do their sums. //

not so much getting it wrong at the start, but the many subsequent changes in project scope - for instance, all but 20mn of the total journey now having to be in tunnel. all will be covered by properly applied variation orders, but the naysayers don't see that.

[Hopkirk]

Old Oak Common to Birmingham only. Does that actually relieve much pressure on the network?

To get any benefit from it, surely it has to be completed, at least to Manchester.

[nicebloke1]

Any estimate done for government is just really a request for a bottomless purse, and thats why a lot of these prodjects rocket. To many fiddles and fingers in the pie. Very much like the NHS. DOOMED before it even gets off the ground.

[ToraToraTora]

"Very much like the NHS. DOOMED before it even gets off the ground." - what is this? Plonkers are us? the NHS has been running since 1948 and is the envy of the world.

[nicebloke1]

Hs2 doomed. Nhs a comparison of how money gets eaten up.

[THECORBYLOON]

TORATORATORA, "the estimate is irrelevant, it's currently approx 76Bn, double that and it's one year of NHS or a tiny proportion of WSS."

 

By, "WSS" you mean, "work-shy scum" so what do you mean by, "work-shy scum" and how much money is spent on "work-shy scum" each year?

[mushroom25]

Next time you're stuck in traffic on the m6, on an overcrowded or late train or wonder why your rail service is infrequent, just remember there was a solution, but we ditched it for inheritance tax cuts. Still, if you travel regularly by helicopter this won't be a problem

[gulliver1]

ToraToraTora "the NHS has been running since 1948" And the Tories have been running it down since  2010 .The NHS was never ever  the envy of the world .But now it is a disaster of the world.Thanks to the Cons.