Should The Current Incarnation Of Israel Not Have Been Set Up In 1948?

[ToraToraTora]

I ask because the critics of Israel always go on about how the land was "stolen" to create Israel so I assume they think that the state should not have been created.

[ToraToraTora]

16:16, we know all that, have a go at the question.

[Gromit]

//  ...given to the Jewish people by God forever. // who is a myth.

// Jews have always lived in the land of Palestine // Except for the 2000 years that they didn't.

// their numbers increased steadily since the mid 19th century. //. No they didn't. In 1850 it was in very much in the Ottoman empire and a muslim region. Most jews were in Europe.

[Abstract1]

Wow. 

[royfromaus]

Either you ^ are actually new or you are acting like you are new...Gromit is well know for his anti Jewishness 

[Gromit]

I am not anti Jewish. I am not antisemitic.

I am anti Zionist. And anti the Israeli Government.

[royfromaus]

See

[jno]

it was set up after terrorist attacks. Irgun blew up the British HQ, killing 90-odd people. In 1948, they attacked an Arab village, killing more than 100. The next month, Britain pulled out.

Moral: terrorism works. Irgun's leader Begin became prime minister and won the Nobel peace prize. I personally believe that Britain should not have yielded to terrorists and the founding of Israel was a geopolitical disaster that's still tearing apart the entire Middle East, but we are where we are.

[Deskdiary]

Gromit at 7.30 - that's very laudable, but I choose not believe you.

In my book being anti-Israel is inextricably linked to being anti-Jew.

I'm entrenched in this opinion, you are in yours.

[Khandro]

fiveleaves 17:59, correct.

To see the historically ignorant, unwashed youths parading their new found social media & Muslim instigated new agenda, to think I would witness in my lifetime Jewish school children needing police protection in England makes me weep.

[Deskdiary]

I'm couldn't agree more Khandro. It makes me want to weep as well the way Jews are hated, especially as it seems to be 'acceptable' hatred.

I have a bit of the skin in the game - I'm not Jewish but I did my two years of sixth form at a Jewish school so still have many Jewish friends, and have witnessed first hand the hatred of them, and I just don't understand why they are hated so much.

In my book the protestors in London today are all Jew haters.

[Gromit]

Deskdiary

// In my book being anti-Israel is inextricably linked to being anti-Jew. //

Which I why I specifically said "I am anti the Israeli Government", not anti Israel.

[THECORBYLOON]

DESKDIARY, "In my book being anti-Israel is inextricably linked to being anti-Jew."

 

Given the fact that not all Jewish sects support the idea of a Jewish state, it follows that being anti-Israel does not always mean being anti-Jewish.

[Deskdiary]

Fair enough Gromit. Apologies.

[ToraToraTora]

19:30, so answer the question in the OP.

[Khandro]

Corbyloon //Given the fact that not all Jewish sects support the idea of a Jewish state,//

 

Who are they & how many adherents do they have ?

[THECORBYLOON]

"Most Orthodox religious groups have accepted and actively support the State of Israel, even if they have not adopted the "Zionist" ideology. The World Agudath Israel party (founded in Poland) has, at times, participated in Israeli government coalitions. Most religious Zionists hold pro-Israel views from a right-wing viewpoint. The main exceptions are Hasidic groups such as Satmar Hasidim, which have about 100,000 adherents worldwide and numerous different, smaller Hasidic groups, unified in America in the Central Rabbinical Congress of the United States and Canada and Israel in the Edah HaChareidis. Many Hasidic rabbis oppose the creation of a Jewish state. The leader of the Satmar Hasidic group, Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum's book, VaYoel Moshe, published in 1959, expounded an Orthodox position for anti-Zionism based a derivation of halacha from an aggadic passage in the Babylonian Talmud's tractate Ketubot 111a.[ao][122] There Teitelbaum states that God and the Jewish people exchanged three oaths at the time of the Jews' exile from ancient Israel, forbidding the Jewish people from massively immigrating to the Land of Israel, and from rebelling against the nations of the world."

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_eschatology

[naomi24]

That interprtation of those texts is highly controversial, Corby.  It's not something accepted by the majority of Jews.

[Khandro]

Corbyloon you're a sucker for Wikipedia. There's a lot of factual ommissions in that article, one for example, that there are circa 2 million Hasidic Jews living in Israel alone, though it claims that many (?) they are against the state.

It quotes one Hasidic Rabbi's article in 1958 !

I suggest a lot of that article's contributers are anti-Semites.  

[Khandro]

^^ I put that  badly; the 2million Hasidic Jews are not a 'factual omission', they are a fact

[THECORBYLOON]

KHANDRO, I was making the point that not every Jewish person supports the idea of the State of Israel and folk can be against the State of Israel without automatically being anti-Semitic.