Time To Sack These Agitators?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-67867273

If the money is so She ite why pick that career? get a job you like instead of holding the unwell public to ransom. Disgusting tools should be ashamed of themselves. Impose the already generous rise and fire those that don't go back.

[Redhelen72]

Exactly Mozz

[naomi24]

I think unions were essential in the days before proper employment laws were enacted.  These days their aims are not genuine - they are political.

[Mozz71]

Nothing demotivates a workforce like feeling unappreciated by their management. That's the same in any job, and explains why unions can be a godsend. Sure, some unions get delusions of grandeur and like to cause unnecessary trouble, but on the whole, they're there to support and protect workers. 

[Mozz71]

Everything's political Naomi. 

[naomi24]

//Everything's political Naomi. //

 

It is now.  In the days when unions were worth their salt they worked to improve the lot of the worker.  Their main aim now is to bring down the government.

[Mozz71]

Their main aim is to get a wage their members think their talents deserve. It's just a lot easier to call every motive political when a government doesn't want to negotiate. I don't believe for a second that they actually want a 35% rise, it's just a figure that allows them wiggle room in negotiations for something more reasonable.

[theshedman]

As I said in my first post at the start of this thread they should be forced into having a meeting that lasts until it is sorted out.  Both parties are paid for out of taxes and it's the tax payer that is suffering because of it.  As I have said before though, that instead of putting the base hourly rate on these placards the Doctors should put down the average wage doctors receive.  When in the fire service our pay was worked out to include night shifts and weekends as that was the hours we were expected to work, similar to many doctors and that was 48 hours a week when I started and then it went down to 42 later on.  Most jobs that you are expected to do these type of shifts the amount is included in the hourly rate.

[naomi24]

//Their main aim is to get a wage their members think their talents deserve. //

 

Train drivers on £55,000 and still striking?  Some talent!  I think people are losing patience with unions - and strikers.

[Mozz71]

I have to agree with you shedman. The negotiations should be ongoing at all times. 

[Peter Pedant]

o come on stop durrr-ing about  unions and politics and recognise that it has ALL be said before ( wo' has it? where den?)

“man is  a political animal” (Aristotle, 1998, 1253a1). this is perhaps one of Ar- istotle's most famous sayings, which is motivated by his claim that “every man, by nature, has an impulse toward a partnership with others” (Aristotle, 1998, 1253a29).

oh god

Aristotle claimed that humans are “zoon politikon,” 

No wonder no one says it in Greek - no one wd take it seriously(*). and the catch is - - - political is not really the translation of politikon. Social is better see above

(*) He is a zoon, he is -  - wd get TTT straight to the mods

[Peter Pedant]

Train drivers on £55,000 and still striking? 

erm I thought this was about junior doctors - or am I on AB - ter daah !

or has.... the train left the station for me?

[Untitled]

"If pay is the issue get a higher paying job, I just don't get it."

some jobs are essential to a functioning society and therefore have to be done by someone. unfortunately the market does not always compensate such jobs very well. people that choose to do those jobs - which have to be done by someone - are entitled to earn a decent living regardless of what the sacred market has to say about it.

[Untitled]

"I think people are losing patience with unions - and strikers."

translation: 

"I, personally, am losing patience with unions - and strikers."

[naomi24]

Thanks, untitled, but unnecessary.  I said I think people are losing patience because that's what I think.  That needs no spin from you.

[Mozz71]

I actually think a lot of public support is still behind the medical professionals. There's more fed up with the government than with the strikers.

Just an add-on to this all being political: why would a union try to bring down a government when that government is doing a damn good job of doing that by themselves?

[naomi24]

//Patients have been harmed as a result of doctors striking this year, and others needing time-critical treatment will be at risk during next month’s walkout in England, hospital bosses have said.//

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/21/hospital-bosses-warn-of-risk-to-patients-if-junior-doctors-strike-in-january#:~:text=The%20chief%20executive%20of%20NHS,few%20staff%20to%20provide%20it.

 

That is why people are losing patience.  

[jno]

well, the doctors have already [pun alert] lost patience and are doing something about it. Under feudalism everyone had to stay put and make do with what their lord allowed them to have. Under capitalism, everyone's allowed to make the most they can from their trade, and that's what the doctors are doing. Britain's loss will be Australia's gain

[naomi24]

//Britain's loss will be Australia's gain//

 

Your loss too, jno - unless you're going back to Australia.

[ToraToraTora]

mozz: "Alternatively, pay people a decent wage based on their skill sets, and strikes won't be needed." - they get what market forces dictate. Salaries are based on rarity of skills.

[ToraToraTora]

naomi: "I think unions were essential in the days before proper employment laws were enacted.  " - yes they played a part early on but got political and dogmatic. They weilded too much power, power given to them by their Labour party puppets. They where within a hair's breath of turning the sick man of Europe into a Soviet Bloc state. Perhaps that is what they wanted. Anyway thank god for TGL who kicked there Aprils from earholes to breakfast time.