Is He Serious?

[ichkeria]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/27/french-president-emmanuel-macron-ukraine-french-ground-troops
 

I'd like to think so - however ...

[youngmafbog]

The problem is that then escalates.  And would that be a good thing?

For the time being I cant see any option other than arm the Ukrainians to the teeth, epecially with drones to limit caualties, and of course continually train them (Like we have been doing).

[ichkeria]

They need to be trained better: I've always said that nothing should be ruled out - within reason. Putin rules nothing out so why should we? 
No one seriously imagines that the Ukrainian army will manage to do what Russia is attempting: ie blast their way to victory by sheer force of numbers. But rather to attrit or outwit the enemy to the stage where his best or only option is withdrawal. 

[Khandro]

If all the able-bodied Ukrainians who have emigrated to other countries were to return and fight there would be no need to send other countries soldiers.

Why should the French risk their lives while Ukrainians live in safety?

 In an analysis of figures from EU statistics agency Eurostat in November, BBC Ukrainian found that some 768,000 Ukrainian men aged 18-64 had left the country for the EU alone since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion.   21 Dec 2023 

[davebro3]

He won't do it - it's just rhetoric.

[Ellipsis]

I'm sure that he is serious that he "refuses to rule out putting troops on [the] ground in Ukraine in [a] call to galvanise Europe" - but that's very different from putting troops on the ground in Ukraine.  I think it's more about the galvanising than about the doing.

[Untitled]

The average age of a Ukranian soldier is 43 years according to the times... which suggests they are running out of able young men. it does seem likely that western governments will have to consider this... all the equipment and ammunition in the world is useless without personnel. 

is russia's strategy simply to bleed ukraine white? 

[Untitled]

"BBC Ukrainian found that some 768,000 Ukrainian men aged 18-64"

erm going up to 64 seems a bit unreasonable. i wonder how many it is when you just count under-40s

[ichkeria]

The reason the average age is 43 is because the minimum age for draft has been 27. That is far too old. 
As for French etc people dying while "Ukrainians live in safety" while agreeing that more Ukrainian to be drafted in, arguably it is the rest of Europe which lives in safety while Ukrainians die to keep the Bear out.

I don't think we'll see NATO troops in Ukraine but the mere suggestion of it does no harm  

[Untitled]

how many under-27s does ukraine have? my understanding was that like most other european countries it has an aging population

[ichkeria]

Well Ukraine suffers more then most owing to things like genocide and mass exodus of refugees. 🥺. Not to mention the mass kidnapping of children. Of course you can still be called up from the age of 18. It's registration for conscription that is affected and has been reduced to 25. So perhaps age wise it doesn't in Dave make a huge difference. Russia had gone the other way and increased the upper age limit  

[Peter Pedant]

Lors d’une réunion des alliés de l’Ukraine, lundi à Paris, le président français a annoncé de nouvelles mesures pour fournir plus d’armes à Kiev, et a évoqué l’hypothèse d’un envoi de troupes occidentales à l’avenir.

mentions the idea of sending troops in the future

nothing to see here move on ( ou rien a voir, avancez)

 

[ichkeria]

Well yes: I don't think anyone supposed he was sending in the cavalry now.

There are almost certainly UK special forces in Ukraine now - at least in an advisory capacity 

[Khandro]

The only Ukrainian I know of is aged early 30s & left early in the war, following on from his mother, wife and child, paying a 5,000 euro bribe (the going rate) to the border guard.

The mother btw has been back once for a 'holiday' to Kiev courtesy of the German government. They have place to stay, the child is in school.

Is he going back to fight ?  Is he .... !

[Peter Pedant]

O god they enjoy it - no running away etc....

[Untitled]

i would not begrudge anyone that decision khandro.

[Old_Geezer]

Macron hoping to trigger WW3 then. Let's hope it's just sabre rattling.

[ichkeria]

I don't want to worry you OG but we are already at war. It's time we stopped worrying about "what Russia would do" now. They're already doing it. If we don't act now they'll be doing a lot worse in a few years 

[Old_Geezer]

The UK isn't at war at present. Just aiding a friendly nation that is, and applying an embargo on an invader.

[Khandro]

Since Putin murdered Prigozhin why doesn't the West pay the Wagner Group to now fight for Ukraine?

Failing that, there are it seems about 150 other private armies in the world to choose from.

[Old_Geezer]

As the payers of 'boots on the ground' that'd escalate things as much as putting one's regular forces directly into the war.