Spelling and grammar

[Gevs1966]

Not really a news item so much but more a general, present day topic of annoyance.

Why can't people spell properly? Why can't people use the right words in the right places?

I'm noticing more and more these days that people don't actually write the words they mean, but instead, replace them with other words that mean something completely different.

Examples would be using the word loose instead of lose, board instead of bored, aloud instead of allowed and to instead of too.

I don't mean to criticise anyone in particular but it happens in abundance on this very site.

When I was at school, spelling and grammar was deemed very important. Is it only me that gets the impression these standards have gone out the window and such mistakes allowed to pass by with alarming regularity?

[joko]

I meant you to know exactly who I meant - why would I say it otherwise?

I had no intention of being discreet or trying to surreptitiously target you - it was pretty blatant.

It was not meant as a 'missile' and I am not offended in the slightest by what you said, nor did i mean to offend you.

I meant don't try to call a halt to a discussion you are not involved in simply because you can think of more important things. We wish to discuss it - feel free to simply ignore the thread.

Your so-called "answer" was clearly just a forerunner to the "addendum". It was sarcastic and having a dig at anyone who answers this question. How discreet.

[EssJay1]

I'm a teacher and despite my best efforts I get children confusing:-
are/our
to/two/too
sum/some
could've/could of (etc, etc)
fur/fir
their/they're/there
tail/tale
If anyone has any suggestions as to how I get these errors corrected, I'd be very grateful.
By the way, some of the children can't learn their multiplication tables either.

[Robert G]

There are so many reasons why this problem is perpetuated.

Nowadays, some of the blame must attach to television programmes such as Eastenders. Bad grammar, slang, etc., can be picked up and copied by the impressionable young, and then further copied by their peers.

If only schoolchildren would respond to encouragement to regularly read sources of known good English writing - not just 'the classics' but also quality magazines and newspapers, and countless quality websites - something might rub off. But I'm afraid that wouldn't be 'cool' (or whatever!).

[Drisgirl]

joko - you are a tad anagonistic.I made my opinion without any nastiness.Guess some people in the real world cant verbalise what they want to say as they are timid with the result they insult people randomly under cover and are quite happy.

Well I am glad I have made you happy.

Had I wanted to start another thread I would have -simple.

Now I am sorry but this is not proper grammar but -dinnae bother yersel wi me agin cos I cannae be ersed!

[Drisgirl]

Oops meant antagonistic - glad I noticed that before anyone else :)

[DirtyHabit]

I put my hand up, I am guilty of something I know is wrong. Why when reading out a telephone number do I say "O" and not zero. I listen to ads on the TV and I don't think I have ever heard "Zero".

[Oneeyedvic]

Essjay - what age are the children that you teach?

Another pet hate of mine (which is predominately the parents fault) is teaching children at a young age incorrect words. Prime example being "say Ta then". No, no no! "Say Thankyou then"

[Ray The Grey]

Gevs1966 - most people make grammatical and spelling errors.

Your errors in the question are;

comma missing with but x2

Not really a news item "as such" or Not really a news items as much as a

Spelling and grammar 'were' deemed very important

such mistakes 'are' allowed to pass by

Bill Bryson/Paxman's books on the language are very interesting. Many grammatical rules were only suggestions in a late 18th century book, I believe, and many were not really logical.

Apologies for the pedantry, I would not have bothered, but for the subject under discussion.

I believe language is used to communicate - if you understand what the person intended then it is successful. I do not like double negatives, but I recognise they reinforce a negative and the intended meaning is clear

[OBonio]

The use of coordinating conjunctures (and, but, yet, or etc) at the start of a sentence is not necessarily bad grammar.

If writing in an informal context, and the sentence it is starting is an independant clause, it is perfectly valid.

But I suspect some people would disagree.

[Gevs1966]

Ray the Grey, thanks for pointing that out but you seem to have missed the point I was trying to get at with my question. The question was not really aimed at small errors in spelling and punctuation as these happen to everyone all the time.

The main point I was trying to show was the replacement of words with other words that mean something completely different, see my previous examples.

[littleoldme]

Yes, there are more important things in life, of course there are, but they can be the subject of other threads. This one happens to be about spelling and grammar.

For me it's got nothing to do with feeling superior to others - it's just a wish for people to make at least an attempt to speak and write their own language in such a way that I can understand them. Is that really too much to ask?

I know that some people have never been taught proper grammar, and I can live with the odd misspelling or comma out of place here and there, but when people are lazy and can't be bothered, or go out of their way to use 'txtspk', it irritates me. If they can take the time to learn 'txtspk' code, they can take the time to learn English. When I see a message riddled with 'da' instead of 'the' and 'dat' instead of 'that', I can't help but visualise its author as a monobrowed grunting throwback, dragging their knuckles along the ground behind him/her. Unfair? Maybe, but it does make the author seem somewhat less than intelligent.

[jno]

Ray, the line 'Your errors in the question are' should be followed by a colon, not a semicolon. (Feel free to spot my typos in return!)

English is a capacious language that takes in words from all over. That's how we get so many homophones (words that sound the same) and near-homophones. Bored and board came from different places, like aloud and allowed. Spelling wasn't actually fixed until the 18th century; Shakespeare would simply have written what he heard, so allowed and aloud might have been spelt the same by him - and he might have used either spelling, or both. We've gained in consistency since people started to produce dictionaries; but it means we have to put in a lot more work learning spelling than Shakespeare did. Some schools, as I said in an earlier post, just don't do this. I do find it annoying, but you can't really blame pupils for being badly taught.

[Drisgirl]

joko- I personally wouldn't have put a ? mark in the middle of a sentence.

Not only is your understanding of grammar dubious, I suspect,personally,your grasp of the English language is also.I have found that sometimes people only read what they wish to see in a response thereby misinterpreting the reply.This is something which I find slightly irksome relating to spelling and grammar.

[dcannon]

I blame mobile phones, I think over time like todays spelling has changed from 'old english' words will change because of use of mobiles i.e tonite, tomoro, 4ever etc.

C u :-)

[joko]

drisgirl, you are clearly hallucinating - there is no ? in the middle of a sentence - it's a new sentence...

A ? symbol is called a "question mark" so the "mark" in your reply was superfluous.

Throughout your entire reply you seem to be unable to add spaces - not sure why, surely at school you were taught to add gaps in between words.

What has interpretation got to do with Spelling and Grammar? It doesn't matter whether you wrote in text speak or perfect english, your meaning was clear.

Dear oh dear, don't try to be a smartarse - you are clearly not intelligent enough to pull it off.

I have come to notice that many of your 'answers' are not 'answers' at all, you jump in and sneer at the people who have asked the question - as though they are idiots for even asking - that is what this site is about - asking any question you like. Your smugness puts people off asking question for fear of instant ridicule from you. I have also noticed that you make bold statements and then backtrack and 'change your meaning'.

I notice you are the only person here who doesn't actually want to properly join this discussion - about 50 replies from others who actually have something to add.

Please go away and let us get on with our discussion.

[joko]

Tell you what, copy and paste your original response and take us all through it, word by word, and show us all what you meant - show us that those words don't mean what they appear to say.

How about that?

Stop all this bickering and get a full apology from me.

[Drisgirl]

joko - I apologise I was led to believe sentences started with a capital letter.

[joko]

a typo - I rarely use capitals because i can't be bothered, as you can see from most of my posts.

Anyway, let's forget it now. we have both said our piece and we are not going to resolve this buy having a tit for tat session on grammar and spelling

although, if you can do what i suggested above, i, and others i'm sure, would like to see it.

peace

[Drisgirl]

Honestly cant copy and paste but it's there for anyone to see.There's an admission!!!

Lifes way too short for trying to score points.

Peace to you also:)