smoking ban

[micko1962]

does anyone know how many pubs were forced to shut in Republic of Ireland after the brought in a smoking ban ?? i believe it ran into hundreds !! and at what cost to the government in lost taxes ?? does this outweigh the so called gains in savings to the NHS ????

[Whickerman]

Not one. Not one single pub.

There was a slight dip in cigarette sales, but that's never bad.

Trust me, the pubs here are just as full as ever. Most of the pubs set up smoking areas outside, with heaters etc. You'd be amazed what you can do with a backyard with a bit if thought.

Just to reiterate - not one pub closed down.

[Trojanfarce]

Depending on what reports you read, the figures range from 'dozens' to 'nearly 500' pub closures. The figure that seems to remain constant however, is the 7600 job losses from the industry in 2004, when the ban was introduced.

Not sure what savings you might be thinking of as I'm fairly sure the NHS gets something in the region of �9 billion a year from tobacco sales, whereas it only spends around �1 billion on smoking related illnesses.

[kick3m0n]

Do you know what, I think it's a good thing that pubs shut. There are more than enough pubs in the UK and Ireland, losing a few is no big deal at all. We're hardly facing a pub shortage, are we??? I'd bet the government wouldn't even notice the drop in taxes, as for every pub shutting, there'll be a new club etc opening elsewhere. The smoking ban is due to come into force here (Scotland) next month and I'd bet quite a large sum of money that very few pubs will shut, despite all the scaremongering by breweries/publicans etc. I don't think it matters how much any pub closures cost in lost taxes, it won't be nearly as large as the sum that will be saved treating smoking related diseases in the next 3 or 4 decades. And the number of lives saved could be huge. Estimates agree that up to 700,000 people could stop smoking in the first year alone....a figure borne out by the Irish example. I don't think we can afford not to ban smoking in public places.

[Whickerman]

Those figures were estimates from before the introduction of the ban, and were figures put forwar d by the vintners groups as a lobby tactic. No pubs closed down due to the smoking ban.

[Whickerman]

And the ban wasn't on publib place smoking, it was workplace smoking -a fair difference

[micko1962]

Sorry Whickerman, but you are indeed wrong on closures in Ireland, my folks visit Bray regularly and have seen many of the pubs they use close ""due to the smoking ban"" and the fact they did not have the outside space to erect smoking zones the required distance from the premises !!!!!!!

AND THATS A FACT.

[Trojanfarce]

Fair enough Whickerman, I was just going on the Vintners Federation of Ireland and a government report for the figures. The VFI do report a loss of some 170 licences in Cork and at the time of writing (Mar 2005) 26 pubs had closed in County Clare in a 12 month period.

[laurence2]

Seeing where all up on stats then, How many people have died of passive smoking over the last 10 years, Therefore what comes 1st, LIFE, or pub closures.

You can get another job, But do believe when youd DEAD your DEAD?

[Trojanfarce]

Oooh Laurence, you're going to incur the wrath of the grammar police, if you're not careful!!

(and the stats were in answer to the post)

[micko1962]

Laurence, i am a non smoker and i have the choice of whether i go to a smoke filled pub or stay at home !!!

why should smokers not also have the right to have a pint and a smoke ???

[laurence2]

Micko, I can't for the life of me make out where your coming from, how is it fair that i inhale smoke when i want a pint down my local

[nedflanders]

Ok micko I see your point but what if I want to go to a pub that is smoke free what choice do I have at the moment..............oh thats right none. I need to run the risk of inhaling cancerous 2nd hand smoke.

[undercovers]

they will have that choice ... the measure is a compromise between those that fancy a drink but do not wish to imhale smoke and those that do... now both groups can go for a pint and not annoy each other - if you want a smoke go outside (take your pint with you if you can)... there you go everyone is happy. I really don't see the argument against - surely this is just common sense

[smudge]

I'm a non smoker & cannot stand the smell of cigarette smoke, etc., but not so sure about a total ban in pubs.

Now restaurants are a different kettle of fish (pardon the pun). We've had so many meals ruined, due to inconsiderate diners lighing up whilst we're still eating - inflicting their odours on us!

Total ban in restaurants - YES. Pubs - NOT SO SURE!

[smudge]

On second thoughts - YES to a total ban on smoking in pubs too. Let them go outside & shiver, it might make them give up!!!!

I remember years ago when I set up a NO SMOKING policy at work - certain individuals were not at all happy at first - but later thanked me for helping them 'cut down'!

[Whickerman]

If anyone can show me anything that wasn't produced by the Vintners to show that any pub closed due to the smoking ban, I'll accept the evidence. But as you'll see in the UK, pubs closures due to the ban just won't happen. As I say, show me the evidence.

Closures do occur here for many reasons, but the main reason some people don't drink as much is less to do with smoking, and more to do with the �4 pint.

[Drisgirl]

Never heard so much rubbish in my life.

My husband smokes and works in Eire.Initially there was a slight dip but nothing has changed apart from the fact he now goes out to the heated tent thing - or just outside for a fag (no he's not gay!).In fact he says its better as he has cut down drastically and even when he comes home he rarely lights up or goes through to the kitchen and opens the window cos even he cant stand the smell of stale smoke.

Non-smokers have put up and in the main shut up in order to have a social life.

Now we are all on a level playing field.

Listen to Whickerman - he knows what he is talking about.

[micko1962]

Nedflanders, what would have been fairer was for pubs/ clubs to have the choice, there are pbs around that have 2 totally seperate bars, why have one of each and suit both sides ???

But no the Anti Smoking brigade want to dictate where and when you can smoke !!!!

I feel sorry for the younsters now that there smoking parents can no longer leave the house for a pint and a smoke, and will instead do what they do in Ireland and stay home and do both "WITH THE KIDS THERE" better health option.................NOT !!

[micko1962]

Whickerman, why do you think its the �4 pint ??? dont suppose its to make foir the lost trade that the publican is forced to put up the prices !!!!!!

NO to obvious !!!!

Give all the choice !!!!

[Whickerman]

Sorry micko, that's the most ridiculous thing to say - it implies that all parents who smoke only did so in pubs, and furthermore that any that did will stay home.

Honestly, you should see the smoking areas outside pubs and hotels here, mostly undercover, almost all well heated.