child rapist

[asciwhite]

A horrific attack in Sainsburys Leamington Spa, once he's caught, castration without anaesthetic and then locked away in a dark cell for life...

[gessoo]

That's OK Andy, I just didn't understand what you meant! :o).

[asciwhite]

So, I am a moronic idiot who has no right to my own opinion, I beleive I have answered to the best of my brain dead ability. Yes, if I could change the law I would. I did not in any way ask for a group of vigilantes to mete out their own punishment and my original post was and is my genuine opinion, ( I should have added change the law to this) I want the law changed to the death penalty with DNA evidence or castration and then locked up for good. It will never be, because that is the law and human rights will win.

As for your notion that a group of individual people dishing out the law and assuming the righteous anger of the public? They're called Judges or Magistates and they do act out a form of revenge called justice. Who votes for these people? they study first and then climb the ladder like any other person, we vote for government and The House of Lords votes for law, they do not per se belong to any side, just interpretation.

The USA sees this punishment, death, as fair and if I was still there, I would no doubt be having a similar discussion.

As for telling me to beware of 'like minded people' as I may offend them, I thought like minded people were that. Like Minded. otherwise they're not are they?

Each to his own and roll on......

[andy-hughes]

Hello asciwhite - do I assume correctly that you last post was aimed at me? If so, you are letting your emotions get the better of you, which is the heart of this debate - emotion versus law.

I have re-read my post, and I can't see where I have referred to you as 'a moronic idiot', or suggested that 'you have no right to your own opinion'.

Judges and Magistrates do not 'assume the righteous anger of the public', they act according to the law, and sentence within their powers. I would not for one moment attempt to defend some of the laws, or sentences, that exist. The system is far from perfect, but it is based on reason and civilised attitudes, not knee-jerk emotion, and that was the point I was trying to make. The law is a very long way from faultless, but imperfect as it is, it is still prefereable to the notion of any individuals appointing themselves as arbiters of crime and punishment based on passionate outrage and a strong stomach.

My point about 'like minded people' refers to the slippery slope that your apparent thinking can lead us to - when the 'righteous' have dealt with all the immediate crimes, and re-sharpened their axes and re-threaded their ropes - to whom do they turn next for someone to punish? Anyone who doesn't think excatly as they do?

That would be you

And me

And everyone else.

What a dangerous scenario that is - wouldn't you agree?

[asciwhite]

Oh appologies to noxlumos, if I have offended you or not answered anything specific in your posts or not agreed with you.

asciwhite

[gessoo]

asciwhite, I think you seriously misread Andy's answer. I think he is right that you have got over emotional here. I can undersand how badly this crime might have affected you. I have never known Andy to be rude to anyone of this site as he is a very level headed and polite guy. Hopefully his second post will make you see more clearly what he has to say.

[gessoo]

Am I right in thinking asciwhite that you originally came from the USA? It may be that you don't fully understand our government, our legal system and the rules that judges and magistrates have to abide by. I grant they are complicated (I have trouble with them as well) and completely different from the USA. I for one would hate to see the death sentence brought back and a 'death row' situation. Has it helped lessen the crime rate in the US?

Please don't think I am getting at you.

[asciwhite]

and appologies to you andy, that I don't agree with you, I believe your last sentence was condescending towards myself and I took offence which would have been highly unprofessional.

I re-iterate I did not ask for a vigilante style persecution and yet everyone 'cept whickerman' decided to become vigilante against me. You are right that emotions/morals are not allowed into cases of law and we are only allowed to interpret as we see fit.

I'm back at the beginning. For the record I am not a vigilante as in take the law into my own hands, I want the law to change but it won't.

Do you still want me to get that rusty old bin lid out of the garage dear? did make me giggle ; )

Not sure if the word touche is appropriate......

[asciwhite]

No I'm not from the USA just lived there for some time.

we will always read what we want to read, not always imbetween the lines either...

sorry....

[gessoo]

How on earth asciwhite did we act in a vigilante style towards you. We didn't attack you - we disagreed with you and put our opinions forward. We were not rude. Wickerman agreed with you - that's fine. Noone said anything out of place.

[andy-hughes]

There is absolutely no need to apologise to me for not agreeing with me asciwhite. The raison d'etre of the Answerbank is to question, answer and debate. I would never apologise for holding an opinion, and voicing it here.

If your original post called down possible accusations of a vigilante-esque train of thought, then possibly the fault lies with your original wording, and your failure initially to make clear your disappointment that castration without anaesthetic won't be part of this, or any other year's legislation.

For the record - I have read and responded to your posts as they are - hence my ensuring that I did not use gratuitous offence regarding your state of mind, or your right to an opinion.

You do not appear willing to do the same - at 51 with two grand-children, I am a little beyond being called 'dear' by anyone, and it was a tin lid, not a bin lid.

I did not suggest that you are a vigilante, but I do think that your tendency to allow your own utterly justifiable sense of outrage to colour your opinion of a fitting and just punishment in a civilised society is somewhat worrying - as is your increasingly emotional reaction to being challenged.

Please argue and debate with me for as long as you like, but don't misquote or patronise me - it diminishes the veracity of your arguments and rather reinforces my point - reason makes laws, not emotion.

And we are the more civilised and better for it.

[asciwhite]

Hi gessoo, I felt that I was being called a vigilante because of my opinion on this child rapist, this word (v)has cropped up enough times in this post, so I turned the table round and no, not at your posts, as you already stated, all is fair in peeps opinions. I do have the attention span of a gnat by the way! so how I've managed to even keep up with any of this amazes me! xx

[asciwhite]

OK, I am not able to argue sensibly anymore because of multiple sclerosis killing off cognitive behavior in my case.

[gessoo]

Hey asciwhite, go and get a nice cuppa yourself and we'll let this thread rest now. I now have to start working again!

[gessoo]

I am sorry to hear about your MS. Having two friends that suffer, I realise what you are going through. Please keep posting on here. Your ability to reason and understand seems just fine. Perhaps emotion has made it difficult today. Best wishes and look forward to meeting again.

[asciwhite]

I need a double brandy after this one!

[gessoo]

I'll join you!

[andy-hughes]

Thank you for a most stimulating debate asciwhite - I am sure that we can shake hands across the Net and have a metaphysical brandy together and agree that we argued our corners with passion and conviction.

Until the next time ....

A.

[asciwhite]

"Cheers!"